Relief Society Through the Years

Sisterhood of the Second Piercing

11/28/2014 - by Nightingale and others from Recovery from Mormonism

I cannot believe that Mormon leadership gets involved in handing down pronouncements about such comparatively trivial life events as body piercings, especially when it involves the relatively innocent and inconsequential ears.

When they forbade a second ear piercing was it a commandment, a doctrine or a policy? If you "disobeyed" the stern injunction was it grounds for church discipline? Did it get you out of a calling? (Both could turn into unexpected benefits).

I can't imagine that I would have actually listened to such instruction (or command) even as a meek and obedient member. I could always only be pushed (or pulled) so far.

In any case, I never particularly desired to adopt copious or conspicuous body adornment, whether I was Mormon or otherwise. I had had pierced ears for a long time and didn't think much about it, other than to assume I had already "been there, done that".

Lately though, out of the blue I started to really hanker for a second piercing. Being a coward essentially, but also still relatively conservative (well, okay, a lot on the conservative side - no skinny jeans or high-heeled boots for me!) I have never thought of piercing any body part except my ears. So now I've burst out of my shell and after mulling it over for a long time I sidled into the jewellery store on the weekend and asked for a second piercing - in my ears (not that they do body parts unseen in that jewellery shop and I don't know where they do but anyway I don't need that).

I felt so free and happy that I didn't have to consult anybody but myself about the decision and had no-one to "answer to" after the fact. I just wanted it, there is no earthly reason why not and so I did it. Simple.

I must say, it hurt a lot more than the first piercing, which I don't remember being painful at all (but it was a good long while ago). And ever since my ears have been hurting like hell. That alone could be enough to prevent a third piercing! I'm not being a wimp - I mean it really hurts! (Is that normal?) It's the fourth day today and my ears are burning and throbbing and painful to touch. There is no obvious sign of infection. I'm positive there is none. But I'm actually taking Tylenol for post-piercing bilateral ear pain. Which is also a pain in the posterior as it's distracting and unpleasant.

OK, I'll quit whining now. I'll just keep looking forward to the time when I can change out the el cheapo studs for a nice pair of whatever I fancy at the time. Something low-key (of course!) but interesting.

So now I have joined the Sisterhood of the Second Piercing. Let them have their Second Anointing. My earrings are REAL. (And for now so is the PAIN but I trust that is fleeting, and all for a good cause).

It's fun to do something different and pleasant and for myself. And the only persons needed to give "permission" are Me, Myself and I, without repercussion.



My daughter's first tattoo was a simple figure-eight wing drawing that her sister did shortly before she died. Her second was a quote in my handwriting got it up her spine. Obviously, she is much more brave than I. Well, it really is that first one that takes some nerve. Peirce, tattoo, boob job, really, why would God care? Why should some dude in a suit in Utah get the final say? - Dorothy


When GBH came down with the announcement from god that women should only have a single piercing in each ear, and that only "modest" earrings should be worn, I was in shock.

This counsel from above came shortly after 9-11, and I was anxiously awaiting word from the mouthpiece of the lord about the matter. I was angry that after that great atrocity the only thing we were told was that women shouldn't wear more than one earring. I had some serious cog-dis going on.

I wondered why it was okay for me to serve a mission years before with no mention that god didn't approve of multiple earrings. Overnight it seemed like there was one more thing that was regulated.

I never quit wearing my second earrings, and I must also confess that I have been known to pick up sticks on the sabbath too. - moronie-balonie


I was actually a NOM (New Order Mormon) by the time that statement was made, but when I resigned, I went out and got my ears pierced a second time because of it. It was more of my way to celebrate my divorce from the TBM ex being final, but it was also my way of saying that TSCC had no control over what I did. Before I had my second piercings, I started wearing bigger earrings to church, but nobody said anything to me about what GBH said. - adoylelb


Perhaps GBH was just in a bad mood while they were writing this talk because someone sneezed in his sacred white hanky. The good news is that the church may change its stance and say he was speaking "as a man" in 150 years or so when it feels safe enough (mostly to this > $) to admit it. Until then we're stuck with relatively draconian punishments for something that's church approved once but a sin if you do it again.


It's crazy..... such a little thing, but a huge sign in Mormonism. Thankfully my second piercings never grew in. I started wearing earrings in them to church, soon after I lost faith. I worked in the primary. I couldn't believe how all the little girls were SO aware of my second piercings! I didn't realize they could be so indoctrinated at such a young age! But SO many of them took huge notice, and asked me about them. It's strange going from tbm myself, to wearing tank tops and multiple earrings. At least here in Utah I mean. First thing Mormons do is take note of it. You can see it cross their faces. I am pretty conservative myself, but it feels like I am covered in tattoo's sometimes.

And I have my first tattoo planned too :) In special honor of my faith transition. - closer2fine


I have five piercings in my left and five in my right when GBH had that "revelation" and I laughed at the absurdity of such a revelation from God. That is the only time I remember god giving a living prophet a revelation and I remember thinking, "With all the world's REAL problems, how many earrings a girl has in her ears is on top of his priority list?" Way to go god! Gimme a f-in break. - mothermayeye


I had four earrings in one ear and three in the other all though high school and college. I stopped going to church two years before this was announced an eyesore for the suits. Seriously a petty thing to even point out. It's as bad as "only white shirts" for the males. I was raised deep in the morg and most my TBM friends had several earrings, like I did. So, I am curious if the young adult girls now do think it's taboo to pierce up. (Funny thing, more than half my friends from high school ended up getting boob jobs. I wonder if that will ever be discouraged from the pulpit. I highly doubt it. ) - Emmabiteback


We were TBM from the mid sixties through the mid nineties and both our girls' ears were pierced while infants. What's the big deal with the piercing police anyway? Oh, I got my tattoo in '63. There

There was no way is was going to let my mom tell me what to do since I had joined the Navy. As I was leaving for boot camp she asked me to please not get a tattoo. That's the first thing I did after graduation.

gMy grand daughter onced asked me if I had a tat of a chipmunk on my arm; it had faded and to her didn't look like a eagle's head superimposed over a ship's anchor with a lettered with USN. When I look at it in the mirror it could maybe look like a chipmunk now. Hell it's 51 years old! - michaelc1945


So.... revelations on tattoos and piercings but not on branding? - Dead Cat


I got a boob job and my TBM friends act as if I should have just spent the $ on a one way ticket to hell. Haha - mothermayeye


My grandma wouldn't let my mother pierce her earrings, so my mom was highly against it. My dad prescribed to the "Your body is a temple" sort of thinking, so he prized my mother for her ears being "pure" and refused to let me get my ears pierced until I turned 18. When I turned 16, my mom found out that my TBM grandma had changed her mind on piercings and made a big deal out of it to her face. It never changed my mom's mind about letting me have my ears pierced, though.

When I turned 18, my boyfriend went with me to get my ears pierced. I had it done for three days when I decided to visit my parents at the fairgrounds. My dad threw a fit! I didn't stop there, though. I ended up temporarily piercing an eyebrow, nipple, top and bottom of my belly button (not at the same time), and still have two ear piercings--though one of my ears used to have three.

I guess you can say I went a little overboard with the piercings, but at least I have a good story that I use to shock others. - nomorefencesitting


I don't think anyone official has mentioned anything multiple piercings since GBH died 5 years ago.

Just like there have been no official reminders of the "oral sex is a no-no" from Jan 1982.

So much of God's revelations seem to be passing fads. - baura


I lived in a stake in AZ when this "commandment" came out about not having a second piercing in your ears.

The demographics were all across the spectrum in the stake, from the very poor to the very wealthy.

It was interesting to hear the R.S. "Sisters" gossip about each other regarding the new "Revelation" that Jesus only wants you to have one hole in your earlobes. It became a form of elitism and one-upmanship on both ends of the spectrum.

Overheard in RS lots of gossip such as the following: "Well sister so and so took out her second pair of earrings as soon as she heard GBH give the revelation... She is sooo righteous."

As well as, "Sister so and so has real diamonds for her 2nd pair of earrings, and they were a present for her 25th wedding anniversary, and she refused to take them out. How worldly!"

Not a judgement free zone. - I-da-ho


I lived in Italy from 1997 to 2001. Some of you will know one of the mission presidents who served there during that time, a wealthy Italian-American with a super vain wife and beautiful teenage daughter. For the daughter's 16th or 17th birthday, her mission president/matron parents allowed her to get her navel pierced. A lot of members' jaws dropped over that one. It seems that this was yet more evidence that when you are one of the elite, you can slide by and do what the hell you want to. - cludgie.


Tommie Monson and Gordie B have never given a talk saying labial piercing is wrong or forbidden. Boyd KKK has been silent on the issue as well. - Robert Hall the Utah Photo GOD


Not respecting another's preferences borders on meddling.

The powers that be are so busy judging others by how many holes they have, where, how they use them and what they put in them... and how well they listen to (and obey) their rotten drivel that they just can't fathom truth, liberty and freedom for everyone. Everybody wants to be free but the moment the robot becomes free, the maker losses control. He is so afraid of losing control that be makes up arbitrary measures to size up any would-be rebels: multiple-earrings wearers!

These "distractions" threaten their authority, "pure" thoughts and planning instincts. The Mormon church lies and the members stand for it... and clap and say a MEN. It is really more about preference (not yours but theirs), and making one [feel] small; a way to force women into a stupid, mocking ritual- cloning! Telling a woman how she can and can't adorn her own body and embody her inner Goddess is like telling God his ultimate creation should be born with a bag over her head and duct tape over her mouth. - moremany


It really is about control. It's also about a very visible sign of obedience. I'm a star-bellied sneetch! I wear a white shirt on Sundays. Or--I'm a star bellied sneetch! I only have one set of ear piercings.

My TBM nieces have boasted their righteousness with regard to fashion choices many times. NO ear pierces for those three! No hair dye or bleach either. The clothes are so modest they're ugly or maybe that's because it would be sinful to buy something nice when you can go to DI! It's hard to feel sorry for them when they're clearly enjoying their superiority so much. - Dorothy

Remember Relief Society Homemaking Projects? This Is The One I Will Never Forget!

02/25/2010 - by SusieQ#1 and others from Recovery from Mormonism

This is one of the stories in my autobiographical collection.

The Relief Society Homemaking Project- decorated waste baskets from ice cream barrels, early 1960's 37th Married Student Ward, on BYU campus.

Relief Society Homemaking Ice Cream Bareel Waste Basket. One of the many Relief Society Homemaking projects that I will never forget involved ice cream barrels that we procured from the local ice cream stores in Provo, UT in the 60's.

Some of us would call the ice cream shops and pick them up before they were thrown out.Then we would wash them and dry them.

Then, we would decorate them in Relief Society Homemaking Meeting in the basement of one of the Wymount Terrace buildings on campus.

I remember putting all kinds of funny things on them: tiny pom-pom balls, rick-rack and covering them in cloth or wall paper! We were recycling even back then!

One Christmas, as very poor students, I decorated one waste paper basket for my mother and one for my mother in law as presents and managed to get them in our little car (1955 Plymouth) and drive them all the way to Portland, Oregon.

The one I gave to my mother was kept by her favorite over-stuffed chair in the living room. Mother had polio many years before then suffered many strokes and now spent a lot of time in her favorite chair next to her small bookcase reading and doing crossword puzzles, and napping.

Mother loved her dogs. She had a little white cock-a-poo-mix, called "Cookie" that never left her side and used to sit by her on the wide arm of her large chair. "Cookie" got old and a little blind and would often sleep on the arm of that chair with Mother. Most days both of them fell asleep in the chair.

One day, when I called home, I asked about her little dog "Cookie." Mother told me that "Cookie" died. "She is pretty old," I said, "I guess it was her time."

"Well, mother said, "Cookie fell into the waste basket and broke her neck!" I gasped! "The waste basket?" I asked. "Yes," she said, "you remember the one you made me for Christmas a long time ago?"

I have never been sure whether "Cookie" died on the arm of the chair and fell off or fell off in her sleep and the waste basket broke her neck and she died. Either way, that little decorated ice cream barrel is forever associated with the death of "Cookie" and a Relief Society Project of recycling by very poor students at Christmas time!

Ahh, the days of Relief Society Projects!

Relief Society Homemaking fake grape cluster. Your story is a prize-winner in the gone wrong dept by I believed this all, once.

Although not a "craft" story, I once taught a Relief Society class about the importance of washing your hands after using the toilet. I'm pretty sure priesthood lessons did not include this gem of wisdom.

I read a comment on a previous blog about how making artificial grape clusters was such a popular craft in Utah, that a non-member once asked if grape clusters had any religious meaning for Mormons, as she saw them in every house she was a visitor in.

I need a fictitious, hilarious name for a Relief Society president. You know the type

02/05/2010 - by GayLayAle and others from Recovery from Mormonism

Sister Raydeann T Downwinder. Sister Bizibee - by Maria

How about Sister Fanny Beaversnatch? - by Skunk Puppet

What's next? A Sister Tess Steckle? - by Ex aedibus

Molly M. Monson - by Ahentia

Sister Helen Waite - An old joke, I know. But if you need something, you can just go to Helen Waite. - by Ex aedibus

Sister Nozee - by Searching27

Sister Meddler McBusybody or you could just go with the standby classic: Hootie McBoob. - by elee

Sister Shirley Meddlesome - by Twinker

Sister Ima P. Lygamist and her husband, Bishop Chuck Fulladowt and their kids Shirley I. Flirt - Miamaid, Dick S. Rigid - Priest, Lance R. Butts - Missionary, who just figured out he's gay. - by Jonny the Smoke

Sister Gawsipper by Searching27

Sister Twinkle Kotton Kandee. Sister Preen N. Strutt - by Twinker

Sister Titan Needy, which sounds much better than saying she's an insecure, controlling b!tch. by Tiphanie

Sister Serial Mom by Susan I/S

Sister Clitstop. And don't bother with a first name. Even her husband calls her the above. by Concrete Zipper

Sometimes the obvious work in these situations.

Sister Theodora Bundy?

President Georgia A. Smith . . .

Sisters Queenie and Clover Buzybee. That one's a bit too subtle . . . Just brainstorming a bit . . .

Hmmm, Olivia Portia Rockwell?

Emma Bideman Goodnight?

Luanna Lee Jondee?

Danielle Veronica Lafferty? by SL Cabbie

Sister, Thou Shall Go! LDS Church ogles a post-female future.

12/03/2009 - by D.P. Sorensen courtesy Salt Lake City Weekly

Sisters not allowed - Mormon Church. The Church is in the news once again, this time with two major announcements with significant implications for female members. A few days ago, the Churchís Brigham Young University let it be known that it was scuttling the popular Womenís Research Institute. Then, just yesterday, in a hurriedly called press conference, Church spokeswoman Sister Labia McConkie, reading from a prepared statement, announced that the university would be phasing out its female students, the first step in the Churchís divine plan to phase out females altogether.

Sister McConkie refused to take questions from the assembled media, but City Weekly was able to contact her by telephone at her home in Lehi, where she shares a modest two-bedroom house with her aged mother and her beloved Airedale, Alma.

City Weekly: This latest announcement was a big surprise. Were you, yourself, surprised?

Sister McConkie: This has been in the works for a long time. First the Brethren, about 50 years ago, confiscated all the vials of holy oil from the Relief Society, which meant they had to leave the healing and assorted blessings to the members of the priesthood, which, by the way, Mormon women hold by virtue of their temple endowment, but thatís another story.

CW: But donít you have to be highly qualified, like being a 12-year-old boy, for example, to become a member of the priesthood?

Sister McConkie: I could get excommunicated for saying this, but you wonít tell anybody, will you? Anyway, everyone from the prophet Joseph Smith himself to Brigham Young to Heber C. Kimball and a host of others wrote about women receiving the Melchizedek priesthood through their endowments; women beginning with Emma Smith herself, and other Mormon women like Zina Card Young, Maria Turnbow, Caroline Cottam, Thirza Cahoon, and my personal favorite, Mehitable Duty, who was given the priesthood in 1845 by Patriarch John Smith. I wonít even go into the second anointing stuff. My lips are sealed.

CW: It makes a lot of sense to phase women out of BYU, but why have the Brethren decided to phase women out of the Church?

Sister McConkie: You donít know too much about Church history, do you, bub? For a long time now, at least ever since Correlation, the Brethren have been cracking down on the Relief Society and feminists who fought for the Equal Rights Amendment and what the late Prophet Gordon Hinckley called ďoutspokenĒ women, especially sisters who want to pray to their Mother in Heaven.

CW: I still donít get it. Mormon women seem like a pretty docile bunch, honoring the priesthood and all that.

Sister McConkie: You donít know the half of it. Back in the good old days of polygamy, it was divide-and-conquer, setting all the wives against each other and stirring up competition and jealousy. Itís tougher these days with one female to keep control over. Like Brother Boyd Packer says, the husband needs to feel dominant. He told the young sisters that if they took his priesthood from him, they would reduce his manhood.Ē In other words, the priesthood is spiritual Viagra.

CW: But donít you still need some method of bringing spirits down from pre-existence to inhabit a mortal body to fulfill the plan of salvation? If you phase females out of the Church, how are going to multiply and replenish?

Sister McConkie: Who needs sex? Our scientists at the Y have developed a way to weed out the male gametes carrying the X chromosome, so we will be left with a seething stew of gametes with just the Y chromosome (named after the Y, as in BďYĒU), which, as you know, will join with the female haploid gametes to produce only male XY zygotes, which will develop into male-type human critters.

CW: But you still need XX females to provide the requisite female gamete, donít you?

Sister McConkie: Details! Details! Our scientists are working on it.

CW: How about you, Sister McConkie? Are you OK with being phased out?

Sister McConkie: I was never phased in, and neither were my sisters in spirit, so whatís the difference?

This crazy old women tries to inspire all of us

04/15/2009 - by Coffee vs. Hot Chocolate

The last time I was at relief society was probably a few weeks ago. I am still my version of active in the church which falls very short of the published expectation, but I guess because I am a convert this is expected behavior.

Hot chocolate testimony at Relief Society. Anyways, the last RS meeting I was in this crazy old women tries to inspire all of us with her personal revelation that drinking hot chocolate from McDonald's on her way to work in the morning was a sin because it looks like it could be coffee and god forbid someone see her drinking coffee, all while strongly implying that we to should refrain from such activites.

I about lost my cool, I couldn't take her ridiculous "teachings" and proceeded to say something to the effect now this is a perfect opportunity for us all to see how easy it is to pass judgment onto others, and remember if you see another sister or brother drinking from what may look like a coffee cup, wine glass, daiquiri mix, or any other suspicious activity remember our sisters experience with worrying about her hot chocolate and assume that they are good people with good intensions who are keeping the commandments.

I was so proud of standing up for what I felt was a "righteous" attitude, and I use that term loosely. After the meeting I was so surprised when a sister missionary pulled me as side and sincerely thanked me for my comments. I was also shocked that it had come from a sister missionary.

This week my VT came to visit and is the Bishop's wife. She did her best to be kind and convey the message. She did say a few offensive things to me while passing judgment, but for the most part I just felt sorry for her. She is the classic example of a Mormon woman who has been stripped of any personality, individuality, confidence in anything other than church or home making activities. I love this line in one of the posts, "RS seemed to be the place for the small minded to seem important." It's sadly true and I wish I could help these ladies realize how to open their minds to conceptual thought and to stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

I am so tired of the push on children. I got married at 19, am in college, 22 years old, am trying to adapt to a newly discovered medical condition, with a husband who has to be gone for work months at a time. Yeah, I'm a good candidate for Mormon breeding to increase the numbers? I mean come on. I am so ready to tell the next old bitty who in a reverent manor tells me to spread my legs to my husband more that I'm an infertile whore already, but thanks for your input.

I would like to close with a prayer: Dear Heavenly Father, please help us all have more patience with the annoying, offensive, close minded members. I ask to better understand their mind that I may overcome my hatred for them. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Some Relief Society moments helped me see church was not true-share yours

03/08/2009 - by Clever Pup and others from

When I joined the church in 1992, the concept of RS was new to me. The Presbyterian churches I grew up in had Sunday School and the main worship service. There was no separation of the sexes.

At first I enjoyed meeting the RS ladies, they were welcoming and very pleasant. As I attended meetings and listened to the lessons in RS, it became evident to me that it was not about improving the ladies lives with Christ's teachings and helpful homemaker tips, it was a lot of odd, wrong and just nasty info. Of course, there were a few useful tips along the way, and an occasional nice lesson, but here are a few of the doozies:

1. Ward put on an all-out food storage blitz around 93/94. Amounts of necessary food and the reasons for it were listed. We were encouraged to use the cookbook and food usage guides given by the stake or church HQ rather than worldly cookbooks. One of the repeated points was the storage of Crisco since you couldn't store butter and Crisco was an important source of "carbohydrates". There are absolutely no carbs in Crisco, pure fat. But these were the best books out there.

2. Bishop's wife got up and proclaimed that all of the grains and flour used at the cannery were of a much superior quality and that justified paying more for them. She just carried on about how all your baked goods would be "superior" because of these blessed flours.

3. Every year or so, some sister would give a lesson on Jesus' death on the cross, adding as much gory detail as she could, tendons tearing, agonizing length of time to die, etc. It was truly nauseating and I just started getting up and walking out after the second lesson.

4. Once I was assigned to VT this odd woman who was openly hostile. She was about 22, and lived with this elderly TBM couple who traveled a lot. She was caretaker for their house and pets while they traveled. Though she was an active mo and a RS teacher, she was just nasty during our (prescheduled, on-time and short) lessons. After a few months, my VT partner and I asked the VT queen to reassign us, we didn't go into detail, just said that it was obviously not a good match. Later, during RS, the VT queen was whispering to this woman, literally pointing and glaring at us. Both of them gave dirty looks to me for the next few months until we moved from the ward.

5. I mentioned once to a neighbor from our ward, who I was close to, an issue I had with a fellow sister. This was allegedly done in confidence. The next RS meeting, this RS neighbor gets up (it was F&T Sunday) and proceeds to rail about this offense and how her friend is being treated badly, all while glaring at the sister I mentioned. It couldn't have been more obvious even though she didn't mention names. The talker came up to me afterwards, just so proud she had defended me. What a couple of nuts. I literally never again exchanged confidences with an RS lady.

6. There always seemed to be a doctrine know it all who would question and harass the teacher. I'm not talking about actual differences in belief, just nitpicking about what town an early church moment occured in or the pronounciation of some odd scripture name. RS seemed to be the place for the small minded to seem important.

7. The culmination of a month long buildup to fabulous fall foods consisted of a homemaking meeting featuring heated Dinty Moore beef stew served in a hollowed out pumpkin and store bought pumpkin bread. Ick.

8. An entire lesson, given by the esteemed Temple President's wife (visitor to our ward) on how we were to properly dress and wear our garments. This is Southern NV, where it is a million degrees in the summer. The whole point of the lesson was that you are not fooling anyone, especially God, when you roll your garment legs or sleeves to accomodate immodest clothing and buying petite garments when you are not petite is just a ploy to dress sluttishly (she said "immodestly") and you are a sinner if you do that. It reminded me of a junior high P.E. teacher in the late 1970's who told us we could not roll up our gym shorts because then they became hotpants. Same maturity level!

That's enough for me, though I have many more examples. Please share your RS weirdness stories that helped you up and out of the church.

I like you number 6 - sunny

You hit it on the head when you say it's small-minded people who need to feel important. You just summed up most of the people in the whole church!

One of my moments that the RS let me down was when I needed help with a sewing project. I needed 12 blocks of material pieced together for a quilt top. One of the RS officers was an expert seamstress who was retired. I called her for help to see if she could either do it or recommend someone to help me and she flat out said "No, I don't know anyone who can". This was when I was active. After that I vowed to never ask for any help from anyone in the RS again. I ended up teaching myself how to do it.

Thanks Sunny - Clever Pup

Thanks Sunny - I agree with you about the RS ladies not being helpful on the rare times you need help.

The one time I asked for help was when my five year old son was hospitalized after surgery. I asked a couple of active, friendly sisters in my neighborhood if they could give my daughter a ride home from school on the few days he was in the hospital.

Each one had a different lame excuse, even though I saw them all the time at school picking up their own kids. I arranged for a relative to be with my son in the hospital so I could pick up my daughter.

I absolutely never asked a favor from an RS woman again. Interesting how they are all such willing volunteers in public but tend to punk out on you in private. Typical hypocrites.

Several come to mind...but - SilkRose

The main one was a Sunday soon after I first began going to church. Originally, like yourself, I found the IDEA of RS to be a good one. Once I found out it was basically a b*tch session and lessons in one-upmanship, I saw it in a different light.

That Sunday, the lesson was on authority of the preisthood within the home. Now, keep in mind, this was a military ward where the majority of us had spouses that were constantly gone on high-tempo deployments overseas, in the field, or were pulling various duties and were rarely home.

The subject of disciplining children came up. One sister, stood up and declared that since she was not a preisthood holder, she would call in her HT's from home or wherever in order to spank her children when they didn't listen to her. I thought, WTF? Why can you not control your own children? Why did you have them if you cannot instill proper discipline?

The second incident that comes to mind, was a testimoney session in which the bishop's wife bore that she was SOOOOO happy that her husband followed the profit's wisdom and obeyed him so that he supported her and their six kids and didn't need to work. Mind you, as I said earlier, mostly a military ward. Which means, mostly lower enlisted families where the wife HAS to work in order to afford to feed their families. BTW, this woman and her "supportive" husband had six children, were mortgaged to the hilt, HAD to live in a HUGE home, which was so empty of furniture, because they couldn't afford it, etc. Funny

Boasting wives -Clever Pup

Oh dear - calling the HT over to spank your kids. That is a new one. I have heard of pestering the HT's for many things, but never beating children - how odd that they were willing.

The RS Pres who boasted about her husband is so typical of RS comments. So often a woman would do her bragging about money, her kids achievements, her own righteousness, or what have you trying to cloak it in gratefulness. It was so transparent that it was pure showing off.

Once a RS pres (one of my least favorite mos ever, she was truly charm-free) got up in F & T meeting and made her whole testimony speech about how grateful she was for the miracle that God worked in taking an imperfect woman (her), putting her in a divine role (RS Pres) and helping her take such leaps towards perfection. She really used the words "miracle" and "perfection" about 10 times. How smug can you be!

Mother's Day - Fedelm

The Relief Society moment I had was on Mother's Day and several of them said that they were "blessed" that their mothers had raised them in the church. I felt that they were implying that those of us who converted were less worthy. I was "inactive" by the time Mother's Day came around again, and completely resigned by the second year.

The gruesome crucifixion description took place during sacrament by one of the missionaries. Normally, I have a strong stomach, but that was so gory that I had to get up and hurry to the bathroom.

RS Testimony Time - anony

I used to *hate* the RS testimony time. It was a throw-back to when we were teenagers, daring each other to get up or making bargains like "I'll get up if you will get up." One week, this high pressure lady I was sitting by just wouldn't quit bugging me about my "need" to get up. I told her she should get up if she felt the desire, but that I wasn't feeling it. She kept on and finally, feeling ashamed, I desperately confided in her that I "didn't have a testimony." She all but rolled her eyes at how clueless I was and informed me that nobody has one until they get up and bear one, and then that's when you get one.

I had never considered getting up and proclaiming I had received the "correct" answer to the "Is the church true" question because I never had gotten that answer. Having this lady inform me that everyone just gets up and parrots some lines and that's all there is to a testimony made it all seem so phony. I wasn't interested in putting on a show for these ladies. That really gave me something to think about.

On the other hand, I had a VT who I did not have to ask not to come into my house and preach a lesson at me. She told me once that she hoped it was all right with me, but that she had not been including her VT partner in the visits to me because she thought the partner would insist on giving a lesson and she sensed that this might not be something I would want. (She was right and I appreciated her allowances, and her extra effort, toward making me feel valued and comfortable.) I eventually confided to her that I was already involved in a different church (one that brought me a great deal of peace and contentment) and, rather than getting all shocked or running and "tattling" to some priesthood authority or higher-up RS lady, she just hugged me and told me that she was glad I had found such happiness. She never acted all weird around me about that or anything. I have to admit she surprised me because I was sort of half expecting that one day her "true colors" would show through and I'd be shunned or gossiped about, but, as far as I know, none of that happened as a result of my being authentic with her.

Glad - Clever Pup

Anony - I'm glad you had such a great lady for a VT. She sounds very kind, intuitive and sensitive. Interesting that she helped you most and received such respect by doing the things that the LDS church would advise against

1. Went without a partner that she thought was overbearing

2. Didn't give "the lesson"

3. Congratulated you on the happiness you found in another church

4. Didn't fink you out to the RS or Bishop as a non-believer

You had a treasure there, it goes to show that there are some truly fine people to be found in the LDS church.

Trust - anony

Clever Pup wrote: ".....just goes to show that there are some truly fine people to be found in the LDS Church."

I agree. It makes me wonder why the LDS Church doesn't trust its members more to think and make decisions for themselves and for each situation rather than having a cookie cutter answer and Pharasical SOP for every mundane little thing. I would have ended up an exmormon whether this VT had been a letter-of-the-law VTer or whether she acted as she did. But as it turned out, in tailoring her actions to me as the individual she was assigned to "care about," she was a very good ambassador for the church she represented and she taught me a quiet lesson that you can't always assume that religious people, including mormons, are self-righteous. I'm embarrassed to say that I was the judgmental one in that case -- I assumed eventually she would turn on me when I quit hiding my true nature.....she never did.

Feminists leanings - angsty

I had "feminist leanings" even while an active and believing member of the church, so RS was always a test of my faith. It was really hard to be surrounded by sisters who bought wholeheartedly into everything I felt was disgusting about how the church treats women.

In some wards I attended, RS was basically group-therapy for frustrated homemakers with too many kids. It was good for those sisters who fit into that category, but it really offered nothing for me because I wasn't living that life. I just couldn't relate to their complaints or struggles and I got so tired of hearing them justify their lives to themselves over and over by criticizing women who chose careers and education (like me).

In every ward I attended, RS lessons were completely mind-numbing, with the same canned lessons and themes over and over again. The most interesting part of any lesson was however the table was decorated or whatever treat the teacher brought.

As I started easing out of activity, RS seemed less and less relevant, and I got to the point where I just couldn't attend because it was so offensive intellectually.

Table Decorations - convertinginreverse

Oh god...I hated the table decorations 99% of the time. They almost always used fugly LDS art that insulted my art student sensitivities so badly I would actually feel a little bit of rage. If I NEVER see another Greg Olson painting again it'll be too soon.

Walter Rane and Minerva Teichert I still like, style wise - content? Not so much.

Yes, Yes - Hap E. Heretic

Yes, yes, there are certain aspects of RS that, quite frankly, suck.

The biggest gripe I had against RS was Enrichment Night.

You know, the meeting your were required to attend that amounted to making tacky crafts.

I am creative by nature, and I crochet, embroider and design and make jewelry, so you'd think I'd enjoy participating in Mormon arts and crafts.

Nope. Not a chance.

The stuff they had us make was cheesy, and sometimes, just plain weird. They were always tying quilts for somebody in the ward, and they looked awful. In the sixties, somebody came up with making bunches of glass grapes to display on the dining room table. And, the ultimate: some RS gal actually taught her ladies to make Christmas sleighs out of turkey carcasses. Believe, or not.

Sometimes, when I'm out driving, I'll see little signs posted in people's yards that say, "Enrichment Meeting Tonight" at such-and-such time. As if we want to be reminded!

After the 3 hour block on Sundays, plus holding a calling, being VT'd or HT'd, the last thing I want to do is go to yet ANOTHER meeting during the week, just to tie a damn quilt or make some silly junk I'd just throw away.

Man, what a relief it is to be "Relief Society" free!

That Sunday, the lesson was on authority of the preisthood within the home. - Cali in Utah

When was a Relief Society lesson ever on anything else?

1)honoring the priesthood

2)the blessings of the temple.

3)Joseph and Emma's perfect marriage.

While I was getting my PhD, I taught a couple of university classes. When the ward found out, they asked me to teach in the Relief Society--like it was this huge honor for me. My first lesson was on--as usual--the authority of the Priesthood in the home. I called the RS Pres and said I could not bring myself to give that lesson, because I did not have the Priesthood in my home. She said I could choose any lesson I wanted. I looked through that entire manual. At the time, I knew all about the Masons, and I'd had a very bad temple marriage experience, and creepiness in the temple afterwards, too; in fact, I'd stopped believing in the temple altogether. I also knew the truth about Joseph Smith and polygamy, because my ancestors were his friends and neighbors, and some were polygamists, too. Every lesson was on those three subjects. It was then, I realized that, as a single divorced temple-avoiding working woman--RS was not for me.

Funny story. I was dating a prominent, wealthy, good-looking widower in our ward, who held a high Stake position. My mother was visiting from out of town, and this man happened to be a special guest, to teach the RS lesson. He was asked, because all the ladies swooned over this guy. After the lesson, I asked my mother what she thought of Mr. Wonderful. She looked at me over the top of her glasses and said, "Cali--he is NOT FOR YOU." Ha-ha! He was too pompous and phony for me, anyway, and a few months later, he was caught in bed with a neighbor's wife. LOL! Good ol' Mom! That was probably the best thing that ever happened in RS.

Sometimes I honestly felt that some of the women were jealous of me, because I had it all, and did not have to take orders from a Priesthood husband. I lived an absolutely squeaky-clean, moral, honest life. When they couldn't find any fault in me or my children, they would MAKE UP STORIES about me. This hurt my feelings, because I took it personally, until I talked to other single women members. We were all treated the same way, as though we were a threat to their marriages, or something.

The Relief Society is just a microcosm of the church in general. It is a forum for gossip and judgment. It is a medium for spreading lies, and fake FPR's. It is an opportunity for small people to feel important--to feel they are better than YOU.

I was glad to be put in the Primary, so I wouldn't have to go to Relief Society. I stayed in the Primary for years, until I left the cult altogether.

LDS leaders treat the rank-and-file like children - Guy Noir, Private Eye

I'm sure the women get 'an extra dose', but I didn't know that RS was this bad....

How's tscc (The So Called Church) going to survive if more women get educated, start using their brains/heads?

And I thought those stereotypes about 'dumb' gushy-emotion women who didn't think for themselves wasn't true!

At least in Penishood...well, the only parallel I can think of was all the spankings about low HT percentages....

(Looking back, about 3 yrs ago now) Boring, repetitious lessons would be a close second (gawd, they were AWFUL).

At least guys kept the gossiping out of the classroom/meetings...

Bishop's wife - Housewife2Heretic

One of the many WTF? moments for me came one day when the Bishop's wife was giving a lesson on teaching chastity to our children.

She went on and on about how the lessons start when they are infants and proceeded to relate how we should be covering our babies genitals when changing their diapers. Cover them up she said. WTH? Was my baby cold? Was there a draft?


1970s gym shorts turned into hot pants, huh? - hot pants

Consider yourself lucky. In the 1950s, all the girls were required to wear bloomers!

Went on and on - transplant in texas

in one of my last wards this woman got up & did a lesson about honoring the priesthood. Basically she got up & went on and on about how we were stupid women and didn't have any communication from God & how lucky we were to have the priesthood to talk to God for us & how priesthood holders were never ever wrong and we were never to question them. she then related how she always did exactly what her husband said every time without ever questioning, even if what he said seemed like a bad idea she always went with it and knew she would be blessed for it. I knew her hubby, he was actually a pretty great guy that probably would have liked a spouse that would think out decisions with him, he was probably unaware that she was going along with everything he said because he held some dumb "power."

there was an investigator sitting next to me & she had this scared creeped out "will it be too obvious if i run away now or should i wait until later?" look, i think she was waiting for the chicken to come out so we could sacrifice it.

Fortunately, I first attended RS when it was educational and fun! - SusieQ#1

That was long before Correlation really took hold. We studied literature, and learned how to do a lot of skills (I was young!)that I still practice today.

Most of the teachers, I knew personally and were friends. In the early days, at BYU in married student housing, we developed friendships that lasted for many decades. Many are in their 70's and older, and some have passed away now.

I look back with fondness on many of those times in RS.

Sure, there were a few odd balls from time to time, and some teachers were very childish and silly, but for the most part, I didn't have a problem with RS. I have some very funny memories from those days - especially in the 60's to 80's!

I found no use for VT, however, and told them, they didn't have to visit me many years before I left. I saw most of the women two to three times a week, and I was not going to impose on their time to make a separate trip to my house to give me a lesson, when I could read it myself.That's just too silly!

I had a lot of weird, strange, odd, funny experiences in my over three decades as a believer in Mormonism. Interestingly, many of the personality types and religious types (from fanatical, letter of the law, to moderate and liberal) were evident in the work force also. Just had different faces!

My personal experiences with Mormonism with individual members gave me a lot of insight in the work force. I wouldn't have had a clue about some of the people I worked with if I hadn't had experience with the same types in the LDS Church.

By the 90's I had no real need for RS. It was too restrictive and sterile and lacked any creativity of the decades before.

RS had nothing to do with my fact-finding into the history of the LDS Church. That happened (in about 1998) when I realized that Joseph Smith Jr was a very clever con-artist and had told such whoppers in the name of visions, and supernatural events, that his claims were totally unbelievable. And, I made my exit!

I still keep in touch with some of the women I have known in RS. I have several friends who are Mormons, including many, many relatives.

I almost forgot: we had men as guest teachers in RS several times that I can recall.

A CPA, a funeral director, a mechanic, a Red Cross instructor. I am sure there were more, but that is all I can recall at the moment.

My low point - CA Girl

My low point was a Sunday in Taylorsville when I was first married. The teacher doing the lesson asked "Why do we in the church encourage our children to marry so young?" Another sister replied "So they won't go out into the world and learn about the world and be tempted by Satan away from the gospel." I looked around the room, waiting for someone to correct the sister who had answered the question and instead saw everyone nodding solemnly in agreement. Even as a major TBM, RM, BYU grad my reaction was WTF?

If I had to list my top 10 red flag moments before I found out the truth about the church, this would probably be the top of the list.

Boyd K Packer splits hairs with Relief Society grooming styles

01/20/2007 - by Garment Wedgie and others

Boyd K Packer teased by Holy Ghost with fuzzies.
Boyd Packer speaking at BYU Devotional 01/16/2007 courtesy of Provo Daily Herald: "Sometimes (holding to the rod) is so simple a thing as how you groom yourself," he said, later mentioning "girls who incessantly tease their hair so as to look like it hasn't been combed" as an example of poor grooming.

"You will be safe if you look like, act like and groom like a Latter-day Saint," Packer said.

"Lehi's dream of the iron rod has in it everything a young Latter-day saint needs to understand the test of life," Packer said.

In the dream, Lehi sees people holding to an iron rod, attempting to walk to a tree of life, symbolizing the love of God. A "great and spacious building" deters those on the rod, and symbolizes a worldly lifestyle.

Packer also sang to the students a song from his days at the institute of religion at Weber State: "Root-te-toot, Root-te-toot, we are the boys of the institute, we don't smoke and we don't chew, and we don't go with girls that do."

Mormon women in spirit prison for teasing hair.
Barbara Smith biggest tease of all.
Sheri Dew cannont be done.
General Relief Society and Sheri Dew hair teasers.
Gordon B Hinckley's skunk eye.
Gordon B Hinckley concerned about girl teasing hair.
Richard Dutcher's wife blow dries hair.
Donna Packer's response to husband Boyd Packer's talk at BYU.

One confused BYU student asked for clarification from the Honor Code office staff:

Is it holding the rod vs. teasing your hair, or is it teasing your rod while holding the hair. I'm sooooo confused. Which one gets me into the building? Its damned cold out here. - by SoCal Apostate

Still another BYU student gasping with quilt wondered:

Oh my God, I think I may have a problem. I think I may have teased my hair today but Im not sure. Does President Packer have a pamphlet or something on the subject so I can be sure I'm not sinning? - by Pete Dunn

A puzzled BYU alumunus:

What is it with Boyd K. & hair? In 1976, I was a missionary in Denmark & attended an area conference in Copenhagen for all the Scandinavian countries. SWK & other general authorities were there. We were very excited because Boyd K. was going to have a special meeting with just us missionaries. Our mission president really had us hyped up & convinced Boyd K. was going to give us the magic bullet to get the work moving.

Guess what Boyd K talked about? HAIR!! I shit you not! He had a larger drawing board & illustrated how missionaries should comb & cut thier hair. He even had Elders stand up as examples.

Yes siree, if only we'd have combed our hair the Lards way many more Danes would have been saved!

What a farce! - by Travis

Positive feedback almost nonexistent in the church

03/18/2007 - by lynn from Recovery from Mormonism

Like many of the posters here, I worked my damn butt off for the church. I rarely heard a thankyou from a church leader or a parent. Of course, I came away from each leadership mtg not feeling supported but always being told how we were falling short of the mark and needed to lengthen our stride. I have recently returned to the work force after 23 years of being a stay-at-home mom. I love my part-time job! Yesterday the district manager praised me for my performance. What did I do? I turned 10 shades of red and literally covered my face for a second with my hands. I realized at that moment how deprived of a positive word of praise and encouragement I had actually been for so many years. My tbm husband rarely acknowledges my abilities, my teens/grown kids are self-absorbed and don't look at me as anything but their mom, and after all those years of church service, I grew accustomed to never expecting any positive feedback. Isn't that sad?

But it's also wonderful to finally have my efforts recognized. I honestly believe that working outside the home is healthy for a women, and subsequently beneficial to a family - not detrimental (as church leaders preach).

The New Relief Society Presidency.

Swimming through three hours of fake smiles every Sunday

12/21/2006 - by Cheryl and others from Recovery from Mormonism

Mormon faces of Relief Society. I'm a people watcher. I can't get enough of it. This started on Sundays as a mormon, watching other mormons. I often felt I was treading water in a whirlpool of fake smiles on Sundays.

The Lord blesses those who serve Him, the faithful, the valiant, the stalwart, the good. Blessed saints need to show it by radiating a happy countanence.

I watched "happy" saints week after week and often pitied them, like I would actors caught in a bad stage production.

Did any of you feel compelled to act happy at church or around churchmembers when you were crying inside?

Did you feel that your smiles reflected to others how blessed you were?

Were some emotions considered more "saintly" than others?

Did you feel guilty about being sad, down, angry, or depressed?

Was there a prototype personaity more favored in your ward? Perhaps, outgoing? Exuberent? Energetic? Bouncy? Enthusiastic? Sparkling?

Did anyone tell you that "negative feelings" would drive away "the spirit?"

Did you think you'd be more acceptable to others at church if you "turned you frowns upside down?"


I think the worst offenders are in the Relief Society! There is an attitude that you must assume the appearance of perfection at all times. Above all, women must make sure that the other sisters know how happy they are with their lives because it somehow indicates that they are living the gospel more perfectly than everyone else. The sad thing is, so very many of these women go home, take their fake Sunday smiles off their faces, and take antidepressants to deal with their often stressful and meaningless lives. The longer I am away from the church the more grateful I am that I can just live my life as I want and don't have to pretend to be something that I am not. - Julie


Mormon fake smile. I hated Sundays more than any day of the week--until I ditched the church.

I hated everything about "the Sabbath." The Mormon handshaking, backslapping, "How are you brother?" bullshit got old. Every Sunday was the same--get up, bicker with the family, put on a fake smile, and attend church.

I do not know what religion should entail, to be sure. But I do know the Mormon approach lacked any appeal at all. Long, dull lessons, sitting on folding chairs, or pews, taking Wonder Bread and warm tap water as a "sacrament," and being admonished by "leaders" never appealed. to me. That was not religion.

But you were expected to smile. How could you be unhappy in the chapel? - lightfingerlouie


You don't dare let on how you REALLY feel.

You learn to plaster on the phony smile and answer "fine" if asked how you are. There's no way you can confide in anyone, even a friend. If you make the mistake of letting someone know you're not just dan-dan-dandy, even if you minimize it ("Oh, I'm a little down today. I'll be okay, though") the guilt is heaped upon you with a shovel full of sugar...

Mormon two face. "Oh. Well. Hey, I was just talking to so-and-so [Sister So-and-So?] the other day. You know she lost her house in the tornado, her tropical disease has caused her teeth to fall out, her husband beats her with a thesaurus every day, and all her kids are really funny-looking, but you'd NEVER KNOW IT to talk to her... that girl is just so brave, she always has a smile on her face and has So. Much. Faith... Oh, yeah, what were you saying?"

OR, with a shovel full of good old fashioned mud--

"You know I saw this show on TV the other day, a renowned scientist and a team of doctors have discovered that depression is really selfishness and you know, they say psychopaths are often depressed because they are totally self-centered and there is no one in the world but them and their needs and they went on to say that if a person can't snap out of it by reaching out to other people and helping them by doing church duties they stand a good chance of becoming a serial killer or a homma-seck-shool or something like that. What? Huh? Oh, nonononoNO, hun! OF COURSE I didn't mean YOU! I was talking about a TV show! Gee, you're SO touchy..." - DoxiNoMo


Cheryl wrote: "Did any of you feel compelled to act happy at church or around churchmembers when you were crying inside?"

Yes, and it really messed me up. I sometimes refer to this behavior as "bending and pretending"----"bending" to the meet the ridiculous social demands of the system and then "pretending" that everything's just absolutely wonderful. I get nauseated just thinking about it now.

That learned behavior not only affected my relationships at church, but has also affected my closest relationships and caused a lot of heartache. - Some Lady

Relief Society Testimony Tuck.

Real life skills vs buttons and bows

04/23/2006 - by devashoe

I've lived in places where really useful things were taught...usually this was small more or less rural branches with rather liberal,local RS presidents...and we'd have lessons on how to handle finances, fix plumbing and do minor car repair, how to use professional sewing techniques to mass produce kids clothes (I had 4 in 7 years, so for me this was useful), in one place we were all sort of hippy types and taught ourselves gardening and herbal lore and how to make our own soap, candles, seitan, soy milk and so on, which can save a lot of $$$ if you'd otherwise be getting those things at a health food store.

At the other extreme I've lived in places where we've had RS presidencies who felt it was very vital that we do whatever their mom's and sister's wards were doing out west, so we made the ugly glass grapes for the coffee table, some extremely unattractive t-shirt things, and more dust catchers to hang on the wall than anyone could ever have enough wall space for.

Over 37 years in the church and more wards and branches than I care to count I developed a theory that you can tell what you're in for in a new place by looking at the table in the Relief Society room your first Sunday morning in town.

Lace Table Cloth and Tasteful Flower Arrangement seems to be mandatory. If the lace is crisp and freshly ironed and the flower arrangement is fresh and seasonal, you're in for the regulation program and can expect to be bored (although kindly) for the most part.

On the other hand, if the flower arrangement is non-seasonal and perhaps a little dusty and the tablecloth is a bit wrinkled from being in the closet all week, and if better yet the RS pres almost starts the meeting without remembering they exist, then-oops- hauls them out of the closet and whisks them on at the last minute then there's a fair chance that she has better things on her mind than appearances and you have half a chance of not losing you mind before the day is over.

I happen to adore just such RS presidents. Oddly, they seem at some point to "lose their testimonies" and leave the morg, but they manage to do some good while they're there. And I can't help believing that when they leave it falls under the category of "setting a good example".

Ladies, read this actual Relief Society skit as a reminder of why we are out

03/02/2006 - by Micki


BOK, BOK, BO, BOK! Who will help me do this visiting teaching?


Quack, Quack! Not I said Sister Duck, My goodness with 8 ducklings to
take care of, I have swim team, quaking lessons and waddling classes for
all 8 of them. I have one ugly duckling and Iím working on his self
esteem. Iím exhausted all the time. Oh and please donít send Sister Cow
to visit me, Iím afraid sheíll step on one of my children.


Who will help me do this visiting teaching??


MOOOOOOOO! Not I said Sister Cow. IĒVe been visiting Sister Duck but
with all those ducklings running around everywhere and all that
quacking, my nerves just canít take it. I donít want to visit her.


Who will help me do this visiting teaching??


OINK, OINK , OINK! Not I said Sister Pig. Iíve been visiting Sister Goat
and sheís always in the dumps. Sheís depressed about everything, itís
not fun to visit her.


Then who will help me do this visiting teaching??


BLAAAAA! Oh not I said Sister Goat. Sister Sheep is my companion. She
takes no initiative to make appointments or give the lesson, she just
follows me around, I need someone with more enthusiasm.


BAAAAAA! Not I either Little Red Hen. I donít really think visiting
teaching is that important and besides Sister Sheep so sooooo bossy!




ROOF, ROOF! Not I said Sister Dog. I visit Sister Cat, her immaculate
home intimidates me, why sheís always cleaning, Iím afraid Iíll leave a
paw print somewhere.


MEOWWWWWW! Oh not I said Sister Cat. I donít even want visiting
teachers, especially Sister Dog, she scares me.

LITTLE RED HEN: (Farmer Rich was played by the Bishop, dressed in
overalls, straw hat, holding a piece of wheat between his fingers , and
scriptures, when called he comes slowly walking into the Relief Society

Farmer Rich farmer Rich!!! Whatever shall I do. I just know I canít do
all this visiting teaching by myself!! ( STARTS TO CRY.)


Now, now Sister Little. Let me talk to the Sisters: Sisters as your
barnyard leader I want to remind you about the time Sister Little asked
you to help her make bread. Remember how you all had some ďIMPORTANTĒ
reason why you couldnít help her. You all missed out on the blessing of
her delicious baking. Remember how you felt as you watched Sister Little
and her chicks eat all of that warm yummy wheat bread. Why this is the
very same thing, you will all miss out on the blessings of visiting
teaching and you will miss having made some wonderful new friends.


Youíre right Farmer Rich. Perhaps I could watch Sister Ducksí ducklings
at the pond and give her an hour to herself.


How thoughtful of you Sister Cow. That would be wonderful, I could
really use the break.


Maybe all Sister Goat needs is friend. Someone to listen to her.


Perhaps I was a bit hasty, donít change Sister Sheep and I yet.


Iím sure we can work this out. After all Iím sure there is a lot I can
learn from Sister Goat.


Iíll make the appointments one month and you give the lesson and then
the next month you make the appointments and Iíll give the lesson.


This is the first time Iíve heard that I scare Sister Cat. All this time
I thought she didnít like me.


Maybe I misjudged Sister Dog.


Oh thank you dear sisters! I know if we all work together we can watch
over each other and not one of our Sisters will be without a friend and
someone to help and love her.


By the way Sister Little. I suggest you leave immediately, I hear
theyíre serving chicken soup for lunch.


WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE Iím outta here!!!!!

Loving advice from the Prophet of God

02/09/2006 - by Deconstructor

Here's what an LDS Prophet instructed men about loving their wives..

"You ought to love a woman only so far as she adorns the doctrine you profess; so far as she adorns that doctrine, just so far let your love extend to her. When will she be worthy of the full extent of your affection? When she has lived long enough to secure to herself a glorious resurrection and an eternal exaltation as your companion, and never until then.

Minerva Teichert - Cokeville Wyoming Ward Relief Society Quilters - 1932 - courtesy Church Museum of History and Art."Elders, never love your wives one hair's breadth further than they adorn the Gospel, never love them so but that you can leave them at a moment's warning without shedding a tear. Should you love a child any more than this? No. Here are Apostles and Prophets who are destined to be exalted with the Gods, to become rulers in the kingdoms of our Father, to become equal with the Father and the Son, and will you let your affections be unduly placed on anything this side that kingdom and glory? If you do, you disgrace your calling and Priesthood. The very moment that persons in this Church suffer their affections to be immoderately placed upon an object this side the celestial kingdom, they disgrace their profession and calling. When you love your Wives and children, are fond of your horses, your carriages, your fine houses, your goods and chattels, or anything of an earthly nature, before your affections become too strong, wait until you and your family are sealed up unto eternal lives, and you know they are yours from that time henceforth and for ever."
- The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.360

And to the women, the LDS church declared...

"Sisters, do you wish to make yourselves happy? Then what is your duty? It is for you to bear children, in the name of the Lord, that are full of faith and the power of God,óto receive, conceive, bear, and bring forth in the name of Israel's God that you may have the honour of being the mothers of great and good menóof kings, princes, and potentates that shall yet live on the earth and govern and control the nations. Do you look forward to that? or are you` tormenting yourselves by thinking that your husbands do not love you? I would not care whether they loved a particle or net; but I would cry out, like one of old, in the joy of my heart, "I have got a man from the Lord!" "Hallelujah! I am a motheróI have borne, an image of God!"
- The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p.37

Although this teaching isn't recent, how common is this belief today among the ultra-faithful?

Does ultra-Mormonism really make for more loving marriages, or is the ideal Mormon marriage one where the church is more important than the spouse?

Comments Section

This is the biggest pile of shit I have ever seen. You have way too much time on your hands. How rediculous. Did you know these women came together during Katrina and hand made blankets and care kits for people and sent them to us? Part of the reason my family is alive is because of their kindness. You obviously have no idea what kind of people they are and all the good they do. - 03/08/12 - Wow


I accidently stumbled onto your "website". You all remind me of the pathetic girlfriend who can't move on and get over her once beloved boyfriend. You still stalk, spy and prank call. Unlike, the overly confident woman who thinks "I can get better than that" still talk about the old times and reminisce at nauseam. I don't think you are totally "over" the church. If you are done...then be DONE already. Find something that suits YOU, whatever that is and cling to that instead of tearing down those that believe. You are laughable!!! - 10/20/2010 - getoutalready


Ok... I consider myself a devout Mormon and I do truly love my religion and everything it stands for. Am I saddened that there is evidence here of people falling away because of perceived/obvious mistreatment or by not being able to simply look past the short-comings of others? YES... it saddens me greatly. I do, however, have to state that some of the situations discussed here really are reality... I totally agree with the fake smile thing and that sometimes people seem to just go through the motions without any feeling behind them. This doesn't mean the world is going to end and that you should get upset... it just means that people are you and me... I mean, who wants to spill all their dirty laundry in church? Seriously? That isn't what church is for.. it is to go and to learn, to strengthen your faith... to recommit yourselves to carry the name of Christ another week...if utilized wisely, church can be full of useful reminders we all need. Just because someone smiles through everything doesn't mean they are fake.. it means they are putting their immediate concerns on the back burner in order to gain strength to get through whatever it is they may be dealing with.

I have a lot of hilarious moments from RS... and that is just what they are...funny, spontaneous moments where someone might not fully understand a concept (not that I do either) or maybe has trouble explaining what they are thinking. Kinda like when children are little and they say stuff they don't understand and you smile and chuckle a little. Be understanding and realize we all don't know everything and we definitely aren't all skilled professors when we teach lessons. One of the things that I love about this church... you never have to run out of perspectives... give a lesson on service or anything else... and there will be class participation to fill the hour and then some.. and everything is different... some useful... some silly.. some you just ignore... some that warms the heartstrings. It just depends on your frame of mind. I love being a part of RS and I wish everyone could allow themselves to have a positive experience.. even when the tacky craft sign-up sheet comes around :)

Good luck to all you gals! - 10/12/2010 - name: Jen Jen


I suppose this will put me in the same category as all the "cry babies" judging others! Hey, sounds like they have never been around WOMEN! My women tennis team are the biggest cry-babies about everything too! So are the women I work with. Women are Women. Rather be around the Mormon women who are at least trying to be better, act happier. Maybe if we try to smile we will realize smiling is a good thing. Being around worldly women who only talk about where the next cigarette is or where they are getting their next plastic surgery or what restaurant sells the best alchohol gets shallow after awhile! Mormon women at least thing of someone besides themselves and serve someone besides themselves - 10/12/2010 - With That Same Judgement


Fair coments if that is what happened to you. We should be able to laugh about ourselves. These feelings are feel and should be acknowledged not put down. We all need support even the self righteous ones who are only in a mask of how they truly feel. A community accepts all including the weird ones. Apreciate diversity. - 10/09/2010 - Ros


Public Education in the United States is heading these same directions. Great website--thanks! - 10/04/2010 - schoolmarm


Wow, I found this website looking for info on the General RS Presidency and found your joke picture. I thought it might be connected to something witty and funny, but found this website of spitting mad, angry people instead.

I have a brother who has taken his anger and it has driven him to be a fundamentalist, believing that the Church has gone astray and he must now go about his life as a polygamist. (which he is failing at)


So, my guess is that you come from a platform of anger. Yeah..."Mormon Culture" can get ridiculous and funny! Some of the items on this website are hilarious! But... People's needs...just like be different, to be better than everyone else, to be special, to be smarter...get in the way of just being what the Lord created them to be and getting their sense of self-worth knowing they are following HIS will in their lives.

I look at the rants written here and it is so sad. It is SO easy to find fault in someone or something. The Church may be organized by a perfect God, but it is still run by men and women who are imperfect. So, basically, what most of the ranters here are that they base their spiritual testimony or witness of God on people, and not on God.

Not one of you has stated that you fasted and prayed about your decision to leave the Church, and with a powerful witness that you could not deny, left this particular Church to serve God's children elsewhere because He called you to do this.

And to answer your last question...

I'm not sure if any of you have been through the Temple and been sealed...then gone back and done proxy sealings for the dead to hear the covenants we 'Mormons' make when we are married for Time and all Eternity over and over again. We do not covenant with the 'Church'. The eternal marriage covenant not only includes promises between the man and woman entering into it, but it includes promises and covenants with God. This is much different than a promise between two people marrying outside of a 'Mormon' temple.

Your question makes it sound like a person would choose the 'Church' over their spouse and this insinuates that the person who believes in, and wishes to continue living the covenants they have made in the Temple are cold and unloving. What really happens when a person who is married in the Temple decides to leave the Church? They are turning their backs on the three-way covenant they made with their spouse and with God. They are the ones breaking the promises and leaving the covenant. Unfortunately, they may not believe it anymore, but their spouse does. Oh, they may wish to remain married to their covenant making, promise keeping spouse, but in truth, that eternal union has become 'dead' and can only become 'living' again when the errant spouse repents and wishes to live the covenants again.

Should a covenant keeping, promise making spouse who truly believes in these things be forced to live their life with someone who doesn't believe as they do? It is a matter of personal revelation...or in others words...fasting and prayer in each individual case. As a general rule, we are encouraged to be patient with each other; long suffering and kind. Yet, there are times when the Lord does tell people to move on with their lives. Don't confuse this with someone who 'chooses the Church' over a spouse. - 06/28/2010 - apostate's sister foaming at the mouth


This all seems really whiney and irrelevant. Just petty small criticisms that do not seem to amount to much. I have never heard a criticism of the Church that did not have to be exaggerated in order to begin to sound grounded, or well thought out. It seems to me that what happens is that someone cannot live the standard - they want their coffee or their sleeveless dress or something else and because they aren't willing to part with those things they feel that no one should choose to. "The religion can't possibly be genuine if I can't live it, and if I can't live it well then no one can." Congratulations to all the bloggers here - you have discovered people are human and flawed, well done. Will you quit everything you do if there is someone there who is flawed, or has misconceptions, or offends you? Will you quit your job, your family, move out of your neighborhood in continual search for someone who thinks and feels exactly the way you do about everything and who makes you feel perfect in every way regardless of what you do, say, think or feel? It seems to me that the one size fits all human being is what enemies of the Church want - a really bland nothing is sacred nothing matters kind of population where everyone is right all the time no matter what, and the less we care about each other the better, where there is no personality or opinion or expectation, so you never have to feel like you need to do anything more, be anything more, or hope for anything more. All the criticism leveled at the people in this blog seems generated by someone equally as flawed - but who is wholly unforgiving and inflexible, never extends the benefit of the doubt, and who focuses on things that don't matter, small, petty, self serving and childish. Grow up - if you do not like the Church, go find something you do like and become a mindful respectful individual who can contribute something, who can stand for something. - 06/17/2010 -

The gospel is true!! Some of the practices -- and definitely some of the people-- are NOT perfect. Focus on the Savior and His gospel, not on the small mindedness of some of the people (hello, Utah) and the wacked-out practices those small minds have created. - 05/01/2010 - Imperfect Member


this site is pretty negative. Some of you seem to have had bad experiences within your church, maybe you were judged or treated differently. But it's pretty sad you've had those feeling and you've created a web page speaking so negatively of a whole church, with millions of amazing people within the church whom you do not know. I feel sorry for you that this is how you've chosen to show your dislike for the church, by bashing and showing all the negative things you find, instead of just once sharing the positive. - 04/20/2010 - positivepolly


If these are the things you are basing your knowledge and belief or non belief of the LDS Church on then you have really missed the boat. The only thing that really matters is our relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If we learn his commandments and keep the covenants we make with him then everything else falls into place. Weekly repentantance as we partake of the sacrament and the efforts we make to serve Him by serving others are the real reasons we were put on this earth. The biggest challenge we all have is overcoming our own selfish motives, controlling our own desires, minds and bodies for our own good and the good of others. - 03/23/2010 - Grandma Anne


I am so sad to know that there are sisters who feel that way in the church. I hope that every Relief Society sister would feel the way I do. I am happy that I am a member of the true church of God. The members are not perfect and it so easy to find fault with them but if you can see their imperfections the more that you need to see yours. Sisters you'll be in my prayers. - 03/05/2010 - christy Tol


I dont know what RS you went to or in what ward or what country but its nothing like any RS mtgs I have been to. The sisters in our ward are genuinely loving and caring of each other and the compassionate service is 2nd to none. I do feel sorry for my sisters in the gospel if they have to attend a ward or branch that is so unfriendly or more to the point so unchrist-like. May our Heavenly Father watch over you all. xxx - 02/11/2010 - anon - probably Mother Teresa


To all those on here who have gone out of their way to belittle and mock my church...I will pray sincerely for you,with genuine love that you will have brought to mind the times in your life when you have felt the warm loving influence of the Holy Ghost.Regardless of anything else that has happened to you KNEW at one point in your life that it was true. I love you, Sarah - 02/11/2010 - Sarah


As someone who was raised Mormon myself, I read this site with much interest and laughed a lot. I especially liked the name Labia McConkie--a creative detail.

I was a devoted Mormon for the first 30 or so years of my life, even served a devoted mission. But when I failed to marry, I was pushed to the periphery of the Church, which really alienated me.

I recently talked to my sister, still Mormon, about our nephew who graduated from BYU unmarried and is hovering around Provo, afraid to leave without a wife. This is sad. Having gone through this difficult period myself of not managing to marry and how this makes or breaks your place within Mormonism, I feel for him.

I'm now in a church, the Society of Friends, that is nurturing and accepting of all people, married, single, gay, straight, with children, or childless. This is a religion that is my true spiritual home, in a way Mormonism ceased to be when I no longer fit the rather narrow definition of what that entailed.

There is also gender equality in my new faith, which I LOVE. If Mormonism works for you, that's great. There are many fine people there and it can be a nurturing community.

If Mormonism is not for you, then there are many other paths to follow and other religious communities that can provide the spiritual guidance you may seek. Be gentle with yourselves. As Christ says, Peace be with you. - 01/21/2010 - Peace


A person can have a good heart, live a good life, and inspire others through leading by example, and have nothing to do with any religion in the world. Religion is a thing of men. As long as one recognizes the fragility, yet beauty of life, and strives to cherish and preserve it, is that not the highest act of spirituality? What need then, do we have of the religion of men, over which countless wars have been waged and lives lost in its name? Religion, it seems as a whole along the human timeline, has spawned from the world the very things it claims to be against: desire, lust, greed, violence, hate, dishonesty, deceit in disguise, and prejudism. If you don't believe me, then look at what is happening in the middle east, or even closer, in this country, and even the rest of the world. We have so many factions from one base idea, because people have so many versions and interpretations to suit their own belief system; in the end, harmony among them is lost, and everyone just wants to be left alone to believe what they want in the way they want. Yet ironically, every group believes their system to be the 'true church of God', and in this conviction embarks on missions to enlist a world of members. So, is this spirituality, is it religion, or is it an attempt at monopoly under a different name? I am sure whoever reads this who is devout to whatever faith they abide by, will by now already have fervent rebuttals to make, in attempts to justify their own faith(s), in a show to themselves and others that it is unshakable under such challenges. I leave a last thought to ponder, to those who are open-minded enough to try: Humans can believe and live the way they want, as long as doing so does not come at the expense of others. We all have a birth-right to think freely, be strong of mind and body, and be free to make the most of our lives in ways that also help others. - 01/27/2010 - A voice of reason


Can anyone else see the irony of these comments?

Now, perhaps I'm a hypocrite calling someone a hypocrite who is calling someone else a hypocrite, but I did read about a woman complaining about a b*tch session.

And there was a woman so upset that someone said Crisco has carbs. If that's not a small-mined comment...

There have been some great comments made. Yet the opportunity to help women see a better way by word and example, however much patience and long-suffering that may take, has been abandoned by these women. If they are on higher ground, then they should lift others up. If they do not lift others up, are they truly on higher ground?

I'm sorry you all got so bugged or hurt by someone in RS, but the opportunity is yours to live the principles, no matter how new or old you may be to the group. You are not victims. You are simply missing an opportunity. - 10/23/2009 - seriously?


I am so sorry you all feel the way you do about the LDS CHURCH.I love what my Heavenly Father has given us here on earth and I know the church is true. I have never heard of things you guys are talking about.I pray you all will find your way back and I will keep you all in my prayers. God Bless - 09/11/2009 - Kat

P.S. I vow to my husband.


I think it important to remember that any group with such diverse backgrounds will always have a crazy fringe. I a lot of your experiences you mention sound like the 3-4% of the women who are always saying bizarre things,it does NOT mean the group feels the way they do. You need to not get so worked up about it. Just let it entertain you! But I live in Oregon, so I could see Utah being far more extreme. I am in the Relief Society presidency and can also see the huge amount of help and support the sisters give to one another. So while at times I can get annoyed about some of the things that were mentioned, I believe the good far out weighs the negative.

PS I never put on a fake smile, in fact one Sunday my kids were driving me crazy and we had a new missionary in our ward, he came to dinner that week and he was surprised at how nice I was because he was afraid to come to the house after seeing my annoyed face at my children's behavior. - 09/06/2009 - Jane


I REALLY feel sorry for you. Guess you never truly were converted nor got the vision of what Relief Society and the Church are all about. You are SO misguided in your irreverant, non-stop belittling and moronic comments. If you don't like the Church, fine, leave it, but leave us alone! - 07/11/2009 - twinB


I can empathize with the sense of alienation expressed by many of those who have posted on this site. As one who considers myself to be liberal-minded and educated, it's easy to see much to despair about in the greater Mormon (Utah) culture. Some of the things that get said in church meetings are hurtful, offensive or just plain wrong. But I think what has personally helped me is to remember to have charity towards everyone, to forgive them of their sometimes painfully obvious shortcomings. We need to remember that everyone is on a different level of growth spiritually. We need to have hope and faith in their ability to one day become just a little more spiritually mature. While I respect the need to remove one's self from a toxic environment if it really isn't working for you, I can't imagine anything worse than to have all the intelligent, deep-thinking, sensitive members of the church leave on a mass exodus from Mormonism. That would leave all those spiritual neophytes behind and we'd have a whole lot less diversity in the spiritual gene pool. Where would we be then?

P.S. I do feel the need to defend Brigham Young a bit. Sure, he gets a failing grade on feminist issues. (He's definitely a product of his time and circumstances.) But he also had some very progressive perspectives that we shouldn't ignore. For one, he was a strong environmentalist who advocated for animal rights and kindness to nature. He also regularly rebuked the Saints when they were guilty of racist actions towards Native Americans, sternly reminding them that the Native Americans were children of God too. At the end of the day, he's a complicated person with flaws and strengths just like any of us. Keep in mind the recent press release from the LDS church: "Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church." (May 4, 2007) - 06/28/2009 - Barbaricyawps


For those active LDS members who are currently reading in shock and amazement at how ugly and evil this site it. Remember that this is a place where people who need to can vent. Obviously people don't feel close enough to talk to other Relief Society members or else this would probably not exist. This is a place where people can honestly, express how they feel, and get all the little cumulative issues that stem from LDS culture (not scripture or the gospel) off their chest and move on with life in church or not.

Take it all with a grain of salt. Instead of getting all worked up, internalize some of the things written, see where you may be doing something that could be perceived as rude, and try to change so you can spare a sister or brothers feelings. Who knows, maybe Heavenly Father directed you here to learn something about your actions. - 04/15/2009 - ACTIVE LDS MEMBERS


There is opposition in all things . . . and as an active church-going LDS woman of Relief Society it sadens me that various women have had bad experiences within the church which has contributed to them leaving. I have been offended too but my belief in the church has helped me to overcome any negativity that has come my way. All I can say is that there are difficult people within the LDS church who sometimes offend and who are not very good examples, however, on the whole, the majority are sincere and are genuinally trying to make a difference and who believe in being christ-like. I'm sorry that 'hurt' lead to the creation of his website. I'm sorry for the women who have not been loved and fellowshipped in the way that should of been and its a reminder to every member, that words and actions can cripple just as much as they can uplift the soul and that we hold some accountability for losing some special women among us. - 03/25/2009 - Annastasia, Sydney


come on get real, LOL.. the majority of people who posted comments know nothing about the church.. alot of you probably just got your feelings hurt when a member might of said something or done something to hurt them.. remember this is Christs Church.. no the members church.. no one is perfect.. but however... the Gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect! and its true!.. so come on back. - 03/25/2009 - Elder Davis


The vitriol on this site conveys more info than the anecdotes it contains. Why don't you allow yourself to move past your anger and use your life to do something worthwhile? You'd probably be a lot happier. This is a complete waste of your time and perpetuates your anger and unhappiness. - 03/24/2009 - Wow


The writer of this site is Pathetic - 03/09/2009 - anon

Wow, I stumbled on this site and it made my morning. I was looking for something for my Relief Society lesson about those helped during the Great Depression. Thanks, I found it in Dieter F.Uchtdorf's words. Thanks and wow. I had only hoped to find something for my lesson that I've slaved over, and always spend a great deal of time on, because I have time. (because my husband thinks it's important that I GET to stay home and nurture my children in mass quantities, 6, {because he realizes our children and relationships are more important than money}a value he gained from the church, the evil thing.) I had never realized how much the church teachings were so evil, teaching modesty. Wow, and unlike society teaches that outside the church people only smile when they are truly happy, like the grocery store cashier. (oh, wait they get paid for that) Which my son's both did, encouraged by the church to get jobs, rather than sit idle, and helping people rather than doing the bare mimum gets them praise, which is always a good thing, truly sorry that you didn't find that in the church. That has never been my experience, to the contrary, I have always received so much appreciation it's embarrasing, that whatever talents I have been given of God, should be credited to me. I hope I dont' have to find a church that seeks the praise of men. Pride just makes me feel so frantic, searching for someone better than me to hate for my insecurities. oh, enough about me, Anyway, I really didn't realize this was antimormon or antiRelief Society site, (I was looking for the specific topic for my lesson and skimming), but when I did realize it, I thought how sad, that smiles and good grooming had won someone of your caliber over to that side, (I'm not going to say Satan, because, who am I to say the bad guys are ones who hurl insults at people for teaching morals and that sin makes you feel bad, rather than churches)but since you have chosen that side, your brains and attitude of love will definatly be an asset. If on the other hand, you would like to come to our Relief Society, I would be happy to appreciate and love you, because I want you, and anyone to experience the great joy I have been given, in spite of the numerous trials, which would have destroyed me except for the Relief Society women. - 03/02/2009 - Patti


ut you posted ??????????? do not do that anymore do not make fun ok? I am a member and I say this is very bad delete this document immediately. - 03/01/2009 - ruben


you are rude and selfish. one day you will change your tune. oh well you will soon get whats coming around to you. - 03/01/2009 - anon

Remember, we are all gods children - 09/25/2008 - anon


Whoever did this, you should be ashamed of yourself. Obviously you have way too much time on your hands. Get a grip and really do study what the church standards are. - 08/11/2008 - A little respect


I think that you may have missed the true intent of relief society. If you look at almost every natural disaster that has taken place over the past 10 years (or more), the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has sent relief to those who suffered from those disasters. Many times the relief society has been the root of this service. Food and supplies were sent to various countries in order to provide comfort to those suffering. There are many good things that this Church has done in the world, in fact it has only done good things in the world. If you are going to share the negative side that you feel inclined to believe then I suggest you also show the good things they have done as well. - 07/21/2008 - Sharing the Truth


It is so sad to see a website like this. I apologize for the people who have responded in negative ways and for the people who have made the LDS church look bad. I can only say how does the church compare to other churches. I do not feel like I put ona fake smile when I go to church. If I am happy I smile, in fact going to church is often what chees me up and makes me happy. If I am sad, angry, or depressed I do not smile. I do not always relate the specifics of my problems to other members, but I do not feel that all of them would respond in the several aforementioned manners. I have to disagree with the person above who said this website was intelligently designed. I do not know a significant amount of graphic design, but I could make it look a lot better. I also found several gramatical/spelling errors. I also do not care if you are LDS, protestant, Catholc, Buddist, HIndu, etc. non- religious, it is never intelligent to rip apart a group unless that group has physically or mentally caused you harm. I cannot believe that the church ever forced anything on anyone any choice to smile, fake it, or follow "stupid" rules, principles, or commandments was "your" choice at the time. I do not say that the church is perfect because anytime humans are involved things get screwed up , but the inate principles of the church are not bad. This site does offend me however, in the fact that it appears high on the google search engine at this date. I can only say that I believe if the church was not true it would not be so constantly molested by people who were merely bored or offended. IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE SOME OF THE "facts" THAT ARE ON THIS PAGE THOSE "facts" SHOULD BE CITED IN SOME MANNER. Person, place, date, source, all would be helpful if this site truly wanted to convince people of the "bad" "mormon" church.

I have to say for myself that I know the curch is true. I have had my ups and downs, not as bad as some, but much worse than others. I had the opportunity to get excommunicated, but I know what I did was making me unhappy, would have ruined my life forever, and whether or not the church disapproved, I did. No one is perfect, myself least of all, no one is happy all of the time (guilty here as well: I am often depressed and angry), but that doe not mean that the LDS church is the problem. I have to say that I find following church teachings gives my life meaning ( I am a woman, I will have my bachelors degree soon, and I want children, but I can have a career too if I want) and helps me enjoy life. I just cannot understand why so many are so unhappy and blame the church. Yes I did read most of this page, about 85% and it does not make me question my faith. It makes me question the people who have written all of these mean things. Even if "you" do not wish to take LDS advice, do "you" believe in wordly knowledge, according to one Dr. Stevens "holding on to anger is self-destructive" By putting "your" angry words on the web you apread "your" unhappiness and hold on to it, everytime "you" return to this site and read similar experiences of others. Why not read something happy that has 0 to do with the church and just forget it.

Well once again, so sorry to read all this negativity against the LDS church or anything/one else. - 07/15/2008 - So Sad to see THIS


I feel so sorry for you girls, too bad you can't feel the real happiness living the gospel brings. I wonder how you think you know how every lady feels that is at church on Sundays. Many of them are there because they need the uplifting feeling that comes from the other sisters. so what if someone has to go home & take a valium, the majority of people I know are on some kind of medication. Life is hard. Whats wrong with smiling when times are hard? Whats wrong with trying to be positive & uplifting others instead of frowning & crying about all the things that have gone wrong in your life. Life is what you make it, & the ladies i know at church are smiling & laughing & crying sometimes & we do it together. find something better to do than put down the church. the people at church aren't perfect & there are at least 1 in every ward that offends someone or judges or whatever but its not the church its that person. if you were to go to church with a positive attitude & overlook the imperfections, you would find its not so bad. to those who are curious about the church their is so much more than what these negative people are sharing , go to an LDS church and find out for yourself. - 07/08/2008 - I Love being LDS


Thought I'd put in some equal time of a positive note about the Church. "In the middle of [the] despair [of postwar Germany],my family learned about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and the healing message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. This message made all the difference; it lifted us above our daily misery. Life was still thorny and the circumstances still horrible, but the gospel brought light, hope, and joy into our lives. The plain and simple truths of the gospel warmed our hearts and enlightened our minds. They helped us look at ourselves and the world around us with different eyes and from an elevated viewpoint." (Dieter F. Uchtdorf, "Have We Not Reason to Rejoice?" Ensign, Nov. 2007, 19) - 06/28/2008 - True to the Truth


As to the comments about depression, I also have a difficult time being cheerful and sociable. However, my membership in the Church and my association with others there is often what lifts me up when I can't do that alone. Of course my greatest strength is my faith in Jesus Christ and when I talk, act and think in a way that would be pleasing to Him and my Heavenly Father, this helps my depression as no other earthly thing can do. I'm blessed to be part of the LDS Church. I may have been one of those fake smiles on Sunday, but I also have been one of those sour-faced ones that need the comfort and counsel and friendship that only the Church of Jesus Christ gives. - 06/24/2008 - Connie


I'm beginning to understand the Mormon Step-ford wife syndrome. - 05/31/2008 - Mishamash


there are lots of comments about the negative social aspects of the LDS church why doesn't anyone point out that they helped 10 million people last year who were affected by everything from disaster to disease. Why are there so many whiners posting sob stories about how their lives with indoor plumbing, too much T.V. and internet, and an abundance of wealth and necessities, are so terrible because someone at this building on sunday that is part of this group of people didn't act the way they wanted them too. Probably the same people who can't handle the same behavior at work, at school, in the grocery store, at line at the bank, parking garages, pick somewhere. Which leads me to my final point the problem isn't this organization of people its you. The way you see the world is a reflection of the way you see yourself. - 05/17/2008 - Omn1bu5


Very good points in es many of the observations in this page. Many are the achilles heel of the hierarchy. Until the upper echelon become empathetic to the women of the LDS religion and look at cleaning up there on upper, male echelon the hypocrasy will continue to grow and spill over into the - 04/30/2008 - ZionCurtain


I love your site as it expresses a terrific honesty. Sadly, the comments are filled with serious hostility and passive aggressiveness. There is a tremendous level of defensiveness and instead of attacking your premise they want to attack you personally. Keep up your efforts and don't let any of these miserable people bring you down. PEACE - 04/12/2008 - Empathetic


This is absolutely appalling. I'm shocked that someone would do this. I believe this is very immature and disrespectful towards the Latter Day Saints. - 03/27/2008 - anon


If you just stop for a second and take a step back, then take a hard look at this site, you might realize that you are taking shots at a religion, first of all. This, in almost any circle, is considered immature and low class. If you looked deeper you would also realize that the elderly people you are photo shopping spikey hair onto are incredible people who have done nothing but devote their lives to helping everyone around them. The LDS faith has a strict code of modesty for women, and in this world where the female image has been torn down to nothing but sexuality and an being object to be looked at- how terrible could it be for a religion to teach its girls that they are more than an object, and they don't need to show themselves to be beautiful- For you to take the faces of women who have stood for this, then degrade them by putting their heads onto revealing clothing is worse than degrading. You have the freedom to create whatever blog you wish, but remember to take a step back and think about exactly what type of people you are degrading. They could sincerely be a group of wholesome people doing their best to make the world better. And I dare say that is a lot more than you have been spending your time doing. - 03/27/2008 - Julianne


What I read depicts exactly what the prophet Joseph Smith said about dissidents. They leave the church but can't leave it alone. The scriptures also teach us of the consequences of such action against the Kingdom of God. Until we meet again at the bar of God. - 03/25/2008 - Holy Molly


Let me just clarify a few things from the comments here: Couples DO make vows to EACH OTHER and GOD. (the point of marriage - duh!) Ultra-Mormonism as it was put, is an American cultural facade. It is typically (but not exclusively) a "molly mormon" trait. An unhealthy learned habit and I do agree that this shouldn't be a part of the "culture" but in the US it seems to be.

Some rules are a bit silly (skirts in to an exam that happened over.. oooh 30 years ago! let it go hunny. Some church dances still expect girls to wear a skirt but NOT in every country. The doctrine is the same but the local authorities largely decide what's appropriate. So yet, another Americanism.

Feelings are what they are. I don't go around telling every associate of mine how I really feel. I get on with it, and when my FRIENDS are near I tell them. It's the same everywhere and wouldn't really be appropriate for everyone to know you have PMS that day or you're bored in their lesson. and yes they are sometimes boring. Some however are excellent!

Oh and the teasing the hair comments.. rather lame. These people aren't gods, they're humans trying to helps us reach our potential.

Get some counseling, and I can guarantee that an LDS NON american cheeseball social worker would be much better :o) - 03/19/2008 - anon

Have you ever thought about all the good that Relief Society and the women in it have done for the world? Contemplate this question before you go on slandering the names of good women in the world that are just trying to make it a better place. - 03/06/2008 - a girl with hope


WOW! This is stupid. I cant believe people get mad over little things like this. Does this really happen? It sounds to me like you people made all of this crap up. - 02/28/2008 - eye roll

nice blog ahole. you could probably spend your time a little more constructively. - 02/26/2008 - anon


if your not a member you cant talk about what you dont know you are just plain ingnorante STUPID cause thats the word to use for such a low life that has to do this type of stuff. your just plaing sick i bet half of the people that do this "mormonism" stuff have never set foot in the church they just go on the things they have been told, just grow up, cause ok you dont beleive in the church that is fine but doesnt mean you have to talk bad about us and making stuff up!!!! - 02/22/2008 - CTR


Hello, I do not know what must have happened to harden your heart against the church and it's teachings but it is really too bad. To see people like yourself totally loose themself to the worlds influence and use petty humiliation against people whom you have no personal connection with is sad. My advice to you is to remember the principle of forgiveness and repentance. The people of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints may not be perfect but the church itself is. I think in life we are just expected to do our best and follow the commandmnets, not take everything someone in the church or outside of the church says to you literally. I will pray for you and so will many others. - 01/23/2008 - LDS Faithful

one of the principles taught in the church is to be forgiving. Why can we not forgive the mistakes of man and remember the true principles taught by Christ and forget what sister so and so said to you. Get past it and continue to live a Christ like life. - 08/25/2007 - forgiveness


jajajajjajajajajajajajajajj i will see you in the hell!!!! - 08/24/2007 - monte


Entao....vou escrever em portugues pois este teu site nao merece eu escrever em ingles...seu desgraÁado, lazarento, vais queimar no fundo dos inferno e ainda vai ganhar um bilhete pra descer mais ainda pro fundo...vai ir pro subsolo do inferno...

Agora se fosse voce comeÁaria hoje mesmo a me retratar pelas besteiras que escreveu aqui nesste site bagaceiro... - 08/01/2007 - VŠ se ferrar infeliz.... - Teu Macho


I was at the Y in the 70's (anybody else remember this?) A female student went to the testing center to take an exam. It was cold out and she was wearing slacks. They wouldn't let her in the center because she had slacks on. So she stepped into a bathroom, took off her pants, put her coat back on, and was allowed into the testing center, now that her lower legs were showing. Oh my heck!! What the "flip"? Just another one of my very "special" memories of the Y. - 05/11/2007 - Sister Outtathere


This is such an intelligent website. Seriously, it is quite clear that someone has put an considerable amount of energy in to creating the humorless images and comments up here. This is a clear indication of one of two possible catalysts. First, this person is bored and truly has nothing better to do with his/her time. This also means that this person is most likely unemployed, and has hit rock bottom in life. No doubt due to excessive alcoholism, drug use, pornography addiction, all of which probably led to the firing of his/her job, and then a subsequent divorce (not necessarily in that order). Or, this person has somewhere along the line of LDS membership been offended and decided the church is to blame. Perhaps there was a commandment that came along that he/she decided was not for them, he/she had a vision of some kind in which they were told the church is true, a bishop came down on them too hard for something (in their interpretation anyway), a relief society member talked behind his/her back, or perhaps they are just plain bitter at the church for one reason or another. Gosh, I can't decided which it is. However, I'm going to guess that the creator(s) of this website suffer a little bit from all the above. Bravo intelligent website creators! You have finally found your calling in life - cursing and making fun of an institution you once belonged to. Why? Well, I think I now have a pretty good idea.

Oh, PS. sorry you were excommunicated for something stupid you did, and now you have a long shot of ever making it out of hell. Oh yea, bravo for that too! Please respond to me, I would love to hear why for which one of the reasons above you left the church. - 01/20/2008 - Bored or offended?

You asked... "Does ultra-Mormonism really make for more loving marriages, or is the ideal Mormon marriage one where the church is more important than the spouse?"

Convsidering the fact that the couple makes vows to THE CHURCH and NOT each other, I would say that the answer would have to be the latter! - 01/17/2007 - DoxiNoMo


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