What goes on behind the veil is wierd enough, but what else can go wrong? Submit your story or
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Print Your Very Own Temple Recommend. Mormonism For Dummies
- Richard Packham's Web Site.
Print Your Very Own Temple Recommend. Mormonism For Dummies - Richard Packham's Web Site.
Of course, you are not prepared before going to the temple. My wife and I went together to receive our endowments and be sealed. My wife, like all women, realize that if your going to be wearing white you have to wear black underwear and bra.
Well, you're not allowed to wear black in the temple and she had no idea. She ended up having to borrow someone's white underpants and bra in order to participate in the endowment ceremony.
Long story short, we are now ex-mo, having had our names removed. That was the beginning of the end for her very short stay in church and the beginning of the end for me, who was raised in the church.
It was my first week at the MTC (Missionary Training Center). On our, "Day off", we were to go to the temple. I had never been in that temple and when I asked where to go some rude lady temple worker treated me like crap for asking a question.
Then in a very rushed way she showed me where I should go. I was not impressed by this spiritual person who was allowed to work in the LORDS HOUSE.
It was going to get better. I went to recieve my name. There was a line of us. I walked behind the veil where this little old guy was standing. I got my name and had just walked out the other side when I heard the Loudest Fart I had heard during my time at the MTC.
Now that is amazing. Those utah boy do nothing but practice. It is a game to them.
Anyway, I was pretty sickened by this. One more spiritual EXERIENCE in the house of god. I was just glad I was not the person on the other side who had to enter that little enclosed room. I think it was a sister missionary that was behind me. I wonder how her spiritual day was?
Any of you have anything like this happen?
That was just the Holy Ghost leaving his body. - Stray Mutt
I was quite confused when I first went to the temple. I remember walking into a room that looked like a small theater and I asked one of the elderly helpers what we were going to do in this room. He winked at me and said, "This is where we all take out our endowments."
Well, I've never been ashamed of my body, so I thought I would demonstrate my enthusiasm for the Gospel and set a good example by being the first to do it. I then proceeded to unbuckle my pants and pull them down, along with my garment bottoms. "Here are my endowments!" I proudly exclaimed. I expected pats on the back for being so brave and doing what was expected without question.
What happened next was a disappointment. One old lady fainted, an old man called me a disgusting pervert and a couple of large men came and yanked me out of the room.
Later, I found out what I had done wrong. I really wish the Church would prepare you better--especially recent converts like me--before you go to the temple. I thought for sure that I knew exactly what was meant by the phrase, "taking out your endowments." I guess I still have a lot to learn. And if they let me go back to the temple next year, I'll definitely keep my pants on, unless someone specifically instructs me to take them off. That's a promise.
You can learn a lot in the temple.
David O. McKay once said that he learned something new each time he went to the temple and basically confessed that he was just still working on understanding it even when he was already an extreeemeely old prophet.
Well, I know I learned something about different kinds of endowments on just my first visit. I guess there can be physical endowments and spiritual endowments. Some are intended to be sacred and some are to be secret. I also learned that if you shuffle your feet on the carpet as much as you can before approaching the veil, you can give the veil worker a pretty powerful shock and the veil worker will call that "feeling the spirit".
I also learned that the ankles of the white socks that you can rent in the temple can be sucked down into your temple slippers, apparently by demonic powers, and become very distracting. Instead of thinking about the deep thoughts being presented in the Temple, Satan wants you to think about how your ankles are bare and feeling a chilly breeze, while the socks are wadded up inside your slippers about halfway down your foot. This happened to me and made me lose the spirit of discernment that could have prevented the debacle described above.
I'm sure that I'll learn more things if I ever get the chance to go again. ;o)
To speed up the process in the St. Louis temple they separated the confirmations from the baptisms, so that you ended up getting confirmed BEFORE you got baptized, for people that the previous youth group were baptized for. Also, that way they didn't have dripping wet youth sitting shivering away in the confirmation rooms, and it keep the floor and cushy seats dry.
They told us if we were menstruating that we couldn't do baptisms, and a whole group of us sat off on the side watching everyone else. They did allow us to do confirmations though, we just couldn't get in the water. They did separate the young men and young women---not the first time I went, but at some later point, so that we were doing baptisms at different times. Of course, the priesthood leaders still got to see the wet outlines of our teenage female bodies....hmmm....not that you could see anything, as aforementioned, but still.
Quite fascinating, really. I would never even think of having the nerve...But remember, your names aren't in the book. Too bad, because when the time comes, you'll have all the answers, you just won't get an invitation to the exam. As for protection and how these folks got in and did the things they did...well, I think the Lord covered that pretty well under the heading "to prove them also". You think you got away with something....I guess we'll see.
For those who attended in faith, but didn't have any earth-shattering revelation experiences, or visitations, get a life. You dare to mock God in his own house? You dare to demand of God what you will be given? I'd venture to say your heart was in the wrong place. Is it different? Most definitely, and for a purpose is it so.
Say what you will...Masons, treasure-seekers, salamanders (by the way, I'm hoping for the Gekko on the Geico commercials to confess that he's the white salamander), whatever...I know what I experienced and it wasn't hopeful or ignorant or blinded by faith or anything else. My first visit was more of a test than anything and I was well rewarded. Not with great visions or revelations, but with a peace that I had not known before and have found rarely since. If you don't know how to listen, how will you know when you hear?
Now, I must digress and confess that the old lady fart stories are pretty funny. And old guys fall asleep. They even fall asleep while the old ladies are farting. Judge me harshly, will you? (You already have, haven't you?) It's OK, I'm human like you. Old ladies farting is funny. In as solemn a setting as an endowment room, it can be pretty uproarious.
I'm consistently amazed that people put their faith in other people only to see them falter, and their faith likewise. In the great equations of eternal mathematics, Mormon does not equal perfect. Nor does Catholic, Agnostic, Pious or otherwise. Faith placed anywhere other than where it belongs equates to the old house built upon the sand type thing. Many experiences I've seen all over this and linked-to sites are at best, unfortunate, and at worst, utter travesties, but I'm a TBM and will not recant, because I am also a firm believer in reaping what you sow, and the people who cause other members of the church to have these experiences will indeed have their reward. Likewise, humility does not mean subjectivity or servitude. There are horror stories of abuse and neglect. These are not necessarily "Mormon", but those responsible use whatever they might to abuse, neglect or control, and religion in general has been a useful tool for these people over the ages. They'll get theirs, too. Any "Mormon" that would do such things is even more "on the hook" for it than others might be. Glad I'm not them...
If these many accounts are true, then I offer my heartfelt condolences and hope that you might come to forgive any that have wronged you. You come to understand that it's for your benefit, not theirs. I hope that whoever you are and whatever you do, you might find happiness. God bless. (Your mileage may vary)
I was adopted into the LDS religion when I was one month old. I suffered from severe depression from Grade 5 onward. A grade 5 (10 year old) girl was thinking about killing herself. I didn't believe in the church before I was eight, I was baptized without a single person ASKING me if I wanted to be, in my heart, I never believed any of it. I was brainwashed and fearful of questioning the religion.
My brother is physically abusive and when my sister asked him to ask for her forgiveness later on in life he just said, God's forgive me that's all that matters. He threw me down a flight of stairs about a year ago and then got in his truck to go to the Temple and then "realized" it wasn't a good thing for him to do... then tried to say I'm sorry, the Lord blah blah blah.
My sister got out of the religion when i was about 13 and it hurt my parents so much, that I was scared of leaving because I didn't want to hurt them anymore. In 2005 I was raped and my parents treated me like it was my fault. I had gotten drunk at a party and then gone to a guys home... hmm the fact that my friends had ditched me and left me with the guy wasn't even remembered. The Holy Ghost goes to bed at midnight.
After I was sent to LDS Family Counselling for a month I quit therapy, and I got a job that made me work Sunday mornings so I wouldn't have to go to Church. I stopped taking the sacrament and am now in a deeply committed relationship with a Jew. I am also Bisexual.
I went to the temple several times to do baptisms but I have never received my patriarchal blessings because the fear of the Patriarch "knowing" what I have done. I am just starting the long journey of un-tangling the lies of Mormonism from my head and heart. I never want my children to be raised Mormon because it would hurt them just as much as it has hurt me.
As I type one of my old YW leaders is crossing the street... how ironic. I'm from a tiny community and 35% is mormon. Every move is watched and talked about. OH and another thing to add... NONE of my mom and dad's kids is married OR a virgin. My mother believed that ignorance is the key. Explains why she is now a grandmother to an illigitimate child... but no one can know in the community because that would mean that my brother can't go on a mission.
It IS a cult. And I have always felt that way. But I didn't KNOW why and how much I knew it wasn't right. Men believe women are possessions (my older brother) is the perfect example of this.
I could continue on about how all my old Mormon friends abandoned me when I started talking to non-Mormons who were in no way interested in the LDS church and how I was emotionally abused by the people in my life, but I won't. Anyone here knows that pain and sorrow that comes with being emotionally and spiritually raped by this religion.
My poor mother is so entrenched in it, she told me (at about 22) that I shouldn't hang out with my non-mormon friends because the drank, and I know they only drink very occassionally.
Also in many other cultures period blood is sacred and women are held as beautiful life barers... but not in Mormonism. It's evil and not allowed in the most holy of places. I'm sorry but it would make more sense to me that temples would ask people if they had athletes foot.
Back when I was going to BYU (around 1998), and still struggling with "same-sex-attraction" as I called it back then, (I've since left the church and come out of the closet - a lot happier now) I was a temple worker in the Provo Temple.
I was about 24, and often found myself ogling the seemingly endless supply of beautifull guys at BYU and my favorite part of my shift at the temple was initatories, where I would often succum to the temptation to "peek" at young missionaries privates as would do the washings, anointings, and clothings. :-D
Interestingly enough, this was also durring my body-piercing phase, and I recieved a nipple piercing and prince albert (a penis piercing) durring the time I was an ordinance worker. I would often go into the bathroom to adjust my piercings. Certainly not as shocking as some of the other stories, but delightfully irreverent none the less.
When I think back to the goofy things that happened in the temple, the single event that stands out is the time an elderly lady with our group went to the temple (we had to travel about two hours) with her matching temple suitcase (with all the temple garb in there - remember those?)after her elderly husband died and realized when she got to the lockers....
She had his suitcase! So, she put on his one piece garmies with the fly, got dressed in her clothes and carried the robes and apron in the packet. Someone got her a veil. Then she cracked us up again, when she wondered ...if...they buried him in her garments!
Well, of course they didn't, because they have special open backed burial garments, but it was the one time that I went through the temple smiling an stifling a chuckle!
We laughed for years at the visual of her short squaty, square body in her deceased, very large husband's one piece garments! A couple of us would look at each other and say remember...her name and crack up!
Some of you have read this before, but you might still get a good laugh out of it.
Back when Mrs. Hela and I were still TBM's (True Believing Mormons) and regular temple attendees, she was having some health problems. Any of you who are familiar with fibromyalgia will know how debilitating it can be.
Anyway, due to the fibromyalgia, I wasn't "getting much" from Mrs. Hela. So, one late Saturday afternoon after the last session of the day at the Los Angeles temple..... Let's just say i got a bit carried away.
Yup. I had a wank in a changing booth at the temple. I wasn't planning on doing it out of any sacriligeous feelings. I was just really, REALLY horny, and temple-film Eve sure didn't help things in that regard!
When I went through the temple for the first time in January of 1974, a beautiful elderly woman played Eve, Mother of All Living.
I couldn't hear anything that was going on. They tried to yell but none of it made sense, probably because I couldn't believe my eyes, namely, ritual in the Mormon Church.
But when I went to the LTM (ancient vernacular for the MTC - Missionary Training Center) we had one chance to attend the Provo Temple. There I sat riveted, watching a movie that depicted the same temple ceremony that had been enacted in the Salt Lake Temple.
Well...with one difference.
There was this cute, blonde Eve, who appeared to be naked, standing behind a shrubbery. Immediately I got a massive chubby made of seasoned oak in my pants. We had to stand up and do a variety of ritual murders, don weird, ugly aprons and robes and cover our heads with a zombie, baker's hat...all the while I, and I'm sure a lot of the other 19 year old, hormone-packed boys, had a knot in their pants the size of a hickory cane.
Once upon a time, I had become on and off inactive after being raised strictly in the church. I was about 23, rm, golden boy growing up, lied in every bishop interview about sexual questions, (you know the type) and still floating in and out of mormonism, garments on, garments off. My parents, family and friends were very-very worried.
This was before the real advent of the internet. I knew there was something wrong but did not know exactly what, and how to find it.
At one point, I had attempted to get "straightened" up mostly because of a beautiful girl. My brother about this same time was marrying in the temple, so I went to see the bishop and tell him about every masturbatory, petting etc. event in my life.
He "punished" me but within a few months issued a temple recommend.
I knew after that experience that I never wanted to subject myself to that type of authority again, so did not go to see the stake president for the final signature.
When my brothers wedding date arrived, I panicked. Not man enough to tell everyone to shove off, nor weak enough to pretend, I forged a stake president's signature on the still valid recommend.
I did not know, remember, nor could I find his name. So I made a signature similar to most Dr's and Lawyers I knew..an unreadable one. (In defense of myself, I have never committed a crime in my life beyond speeding lest anyone think I became a serial forger and stealer of identities)
I then presented myself at the desk of the temple, asking to be admitted.
The white haired man with thick glasses, stared at the recommend for what seemed like an eternity. He looked down, back up, back down, up again, looked at my father, asked me in front of all of the family who my stake president was ( I was in a different stake in a different town)
I made up a name. I could feel the question marks rise in unison in the air behind my head as most of the family and friends began scratching their heads.
I know that he did not recognize the name or the signature, but his age and my lying caused confusion and left him flustered enough that he let me pass.
I was a temple going liar.....as most temple goers are.
The ceremony was wierd. I felt bad for my brother.
Went home, realized that I was a liar looking for acceptance from strange people, took off my garments for good and burned the recommend.
I have felt better and more honest every day since.
Used my mother-inlaws recommend - ybaker
When I was still active I drove a long distance to go to my brother-inlaws wedding in Oregon. When we got to the temple I realized I had forgotten my recommend. My mother inlaw first went in and then she gave my husband her recommend to bring out to me. About 15 minutes later I went in with it. I felt all flushed and nervous but I made it past the gate keeper. That must have been the beginning of the end for me.
I lied as a missionary to get into the temple - EnochIpsen
We got a "special" temple day for making the mission goal of 100 baptism in a single month.
I lied to the MP regarding masturbation. I then felt guilty about the lie and so conveniently "forgot" the recommend at the apartment.
Unfortunately, the president was prepared for us. He did a quicky interview basically asking if anything had changed since the previous interview. I guess I really didn't lie since I said nothing had changed (i.e. I still wanked at least every other night). Of course, I felt as though I had lied. I was sure the MP would see through my lie. Hmmm...wonder why that didn't happen?
So, dreading the negative points that were being racked up in heaven, I went, unworthingly (?), into the temple.
I printed a fake reccommend for my sis in-law. Getting the green shade right was a bitch! - Rubicon
My sister in-law was denied a temple reccommend for not paying tithing and the bishop wasn't buying it was her husband's fault since she has her own well paying job. She is a Utah Valley hypocrite and appearances are everything and she was not going to be shamed by not being able to go to a friend's wedding in the temple.
We spent a whole evening trying to scan in her old reccommend, digitally removing the pen writing and reprinting a blank reccommend with the right shade of green. That green color the church uses is not easy to match.
My sister in-law is a gorgiouse blonde who can talk her way in or our of anything. She get's out of speeding tickets like you wouldn't believe unless the cop is female. LOL! If gamps at the temple called her our for having a fake reccommend, she would go into acting mode and play the"What do you mean? I got that in Utah!" and she probably would get her way.
Anyways, her reccommend passed with flying colors sevral times. I'll be happy to take her tithing money. LOL!
Concerned about fading temple attendance, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced the release of a new, musical version of its endowment ceremony, entitled "Adam!"
As the lights dim for the beginning of the film, we hear an overture with a catchy refrain:
Welcome to the temple
You lucky gals and guys!
Now you've been anointed
And those garments sure feel nice!
Don't forget that new name
And whisper if you please
Be alert, attentive, reverent,
With the endowment we'll proceed!
You all now have the promise
Be faithful, brave, and clean
Someday you'll be a priest
a priestess, king, and queen.
Your garment's just like Adam's
It will protect your hide
As long as you don't defile it
God will be by your side.
Now listen to three voices
They sing, they create, they talk
Don't violate your covenants
For God will not be mocked!
At this point, a chorus line appears representing the 6 creative periods until the creation is done and Adam and Eve are created. Suddenly, the lights flash as Satan enters to a rollicking tune:
Hey, Adam! Yeah, You!
You're so stupid and so blind! (eat that fruit)
You don't even remember
The world we left behind! (eat that fruit)
Hey, Satan! Yeah, you!
You're so evil and you lie (eat that fruit)
Father said if I eat that apple
I will surely die! (eat that fruit)
Hey, Eve! Yeah, you!
You're all naked, and you're hot (eat that fruit)
Eat it so you'll understand
What is and what is not! (eat that fruit)
Hey, Adam! Yeah, it's me!
I ate that fruit God forbid (eat that fruit)
I ate it, so you'll be alone
So, eat and you'll be free! (sew those leaves!)
Adam! Where art thou?
Who said that you were nude?
It's not my fault; she ate the fruit
Beguiled by that Satan dude!
I curse that loser Satan!
That Adam's such a dope!
I'll reign with blood and horror
And buy up priests and popes!
Let's obey the law of sacrifice
And the law of the Lord, too!
And make a token of aaronic priesthood
With the name that's new!
We used to slit our throats right here
But now we just do the sign.
No penalties anymore
To keep the patrons in line.
We then go with Adam to the lone and dreary world, where he sings a solo:
I've been building up an altar
All the live-long creative period
I've been calling on my father
For further light and knowledge!
Just then Satan breaks in:
I hear you, silly man
You want religion, don't you?
I'll have someone preach philosophy
plus scripture, too.
At this point, a lengthy slapstick scene involving a Protestant minister was originally to have been shown, but the footage was cut, lest it offend members' sensibilities.
Peter, James, and John enter, singing:
Good morning! Good morning!
What are you doing here, Satan?
Satan: Just watching some lessons,
But this man can't be taught
Peter: That's because he's faithful
His tokens can't be bought!
Satan: Ooohhh, I'm powerful now!
I reign all over the earth
My powers are more ample
Than Danny P's girth!
Peter: It's OK, Adam
We're apostles true!
We'll give the token you received
With the name that's new!
Satan: Hey, listen, y'all
If you don't keep
The covenants that you make
You'll be in my power always
And in hell you'll bake!
Now, obey the law of the gospel
We won't explain what it means
Just mind loud laughter, evil speaking
And anything unclean
Bow your heads! Say yes! yes! yes!
Yes, and yes, and yes!
Now robes on, everyone
keep it on the left
Put on the cap, the girdle, the slippers
For ordinances you're prepped!
The second token comes up now
With knuckles touching thumbs
The name's your name, you won't forget
Unless you're really dumb!
Here we disembowelled
Ourselves in former times
But now it's just a cupping shape
Left arm to the square, the sign
Now hurry up, it's time to switch
The robe from left to right!
Melchizedek ordinances await
So, sit back down and hold on tight!
Chastity's the law that's next
It's important, of course
So much that we say "relations"
When before it was "intercourse."
Now comes another token
It's called the sign of the nail
Fingers on palms, it's named the Son
Receive it, and you won't fail.
It's time for consecration
Sacrifice is for the weak.
Give up everything you own
if righteousness you seek.
Now make the grip, the patriarchal one
The sure sign of the nail
Try not to giggle as you repeat
Pay! Lay! Ale!
Now go to the altar
In the order of prayer
Only the best of feelings should be
If you want to gather there.
The veil is shown
Check out the marks.
Three times the mallet,
The veil parts.
What is wanted? says the Lord
I'll give it through the veil.
No five points of fellowship;
that's gone with pay lay ale!
Health in the navel
Marrow in the bones
Strong sinews, healthy loins
If you're faithful
Power you'll have
Through all generations of time
Three more times
You're on the couch
Waiting for your dear spouse
You sit and wonder
Is that all there is
Is this supposed to be God's house?
Clean your windshield for a quarter - by Tamanegi
Look at all those clean hankies!
Look at how all those old men wave them around!
"Clean your windshield for a quarter!!"
Look at them go !
Look at those arms flail around!
"Clean your windshield for a quarter!!"
Look at those bright eyes!
Look at the 10 percent shine for more in them!
"Clean your windshield for a quarter!!"
Look at this pack of aged wolves!
Look at their sagging starched suits!
"Clean your windshield for a quarter!!"
"Clean your windshield for a quarter!!"
"Clean your windshield for a quarter!!"
"Clean your flippen windshield for a quarter Bro!!"
The Hosanna Hokey Pokey - by cricket
You put your ten percent in,
You take your check book out;
You put your ten percent in,
But in creeps a little doubt.
You do the hanky priesthood pokey
And you turn yourself around.
(The still small voice whispers to you.) "So what's this really all about?
You put your dignity in,
You pull your embarrassment out;
You put your dignity in,
As your guts get turned inside out.
You do the Hosanna-Pokey.
As you gaze all around.
How bizarre! Wish I could get out.
You put your arm to the square,
Your soul trembles with doubt;
You put your arm to the square,
As "pray, pay and obey" they spout
You do the Holy-Pokey.
In horror as your eyes shift around.
That's why you mumble the Hosanna shout.
I'd like to mock the Hosanna Shout - Cheryl
It was pointed out that Hink, the hankie head honcho requested that there be no mocking of the Hosanna Shout. This was seconds before he led a throng of saints in the shout in front of TV camaras. LOL
I get such a kick over mormons who worry about those who "mock" their sacred beliefs.
Which aspects of the church are most likely to be mocked? Not usually the Motab choior, not the rank and file worker bees, or the fresh faced children.
It's only the silliness, the out-of-the-way freakish cult behaviors that are vulnerable to mocking. Duty and guilt keep members from giggling at some of weirdest morg behaviors. Outsiders suffer no such constraints.
When leaders choke out warnings against mocking, they invite just that. They're admitting their embarrassment over what they do. They're saying that they worry about what others think of their foolishness. Deep inside, they must know that the Hosanna Shouts, magical panties, and temple incantations are comical, but they abhor facing that fact.
Twice participated - NumLock
I've participated in the Hosanna Shout on two occasions, The dedications of the Washington D.C. and Bountiful temples.
At Washington D.C. I was 17 years-old. I had heard that the "shout" was a joyous and enthusiastic "ordinance". Both times it was dull and boring. It sounded really morose with all the joy sucked out of it.
As you wave a white handkerchief the words are spoken in unison by the congregation, "Hosanna, Hosanna, Hosanna to God and The Lamb" (Repeated three times).
I watched part of the conference center dedication while I was living in SoCal and Hinckley led it in SLC. I had never heard of it being done outside a temple until then. It was televised on cable for anybody to see. Before it was performed he said that it was a tradition held as sacred by LDS members and asked that anybody else watching not to mock it.
Lacking passion - Fubeca
And even as a TBM (True Believing Mormon) I was shocked by how it lacked passion, enthusiasm or spirit. It's about as thrilling as the 2nd sign of the Melchezedek Priesthood in the temple...the whole "Oh God hear the words of my mouth" thing, formerly known as "Pay Lay Ale."
I was also taught that the Hosanna Shout was never to be done outside the temple.
Shouting out in Russia - Lovechild
On Hinckley's first trip to Russia after the walls came down, I saw a news footage of the Mormons in Moscow doing the Hosanna Shout to welcome the "Prophet, Seer and Revelator" as he restored the One True Gospel to Mother Russia.
And GBH was obviously just loving every minute of it. Even though I was still very much a TBM at time, it irritated me.
Ahhhh.... as I stop to think about it now, it irritated me in the same way that the song "Praise to the Man." always irritated me.
Even at my most TBM, I was never inclined to put the "Modern Day Prophets of the Restored Church" above Jesus.
Yes (waving my hankie!) - jillian
I, like you, was jarred by the dullness of the experience. (Provo Temple -- as attended at the Marriott Center)
I'm embarrassed to admit it - yes.
Hubby and saved our 'sacred hankies'. Even kept them in our safe deposit box! We were told that it was tradional to have them buried with us. (In case we get a cold going through the dark tunnel, I guess!) Anyway, I finally threw them away when I moved and emptied the box! Now I suppose I'll have to make sure I have a pack of pocket tissues!
My mom bought all the kids special hankies - spinner
For xmas the year before the scheduled dedication of the newly reconstructed Nauvoo temple, my mom bought all of us kids specially emboidered hankies with pictures of the nauvoo temple to wave during the hosanna shout. (Spinner tries very hard to suppress gag reflex.)
I have...well...actually, it was more like the Hosanna Monotone... - Deenie, the dreaded single adult
We were at the dedication of the Toronto Temple, and we all had our special white hankies on hand for this most holy of occurrences.
I remember feeling like a fool (what's with the 'repeated three times' thing, anyway?), and thinking, "Wow--that sure bombed!"
It was embarrassing to participate in it; I recall also thinking that I was sure glad that the protesters, outside the temple handing out stupid tracts, couldn't hear how lame the famed "hosanna shout" sounded!
I remember 'twirling' the hanky and then waving it three times....repeated 3x. - twirling
We were watching the close circuit monitor in the stake center and one of the suits demonstrated for us first. I think it was Packer on screen. It seemed to involve twirling or circling the hanky around the head during 'Hosanna', then waving it up and down for the last part. That shout was repeated three times.
Monotone was the word. It wasn't a shout. But then, what do you expect for an organization that frowns on laughter and free expression of feelings and thoughts.
Deadpan. The deadpan hosanna shout. No loud speaking.... Obey...Obey....Obey....Twirl twirl twirl... I remember looking around and thinking what the *# was THAT??? *** Twirling hankies....hhmmmmmmmm. Interesting visual. (A little vamp music please!)
Really strange - cirrus
I did it at the Detroit and Nauvoo temple dedications. I was only a kid for them. I thought it was really strange, and that I would probably understand it later.
Atlanta and San Diego - anon
In Atlanta and San Diego. It was the Hosanna mumble. In San Diego, it was Packer that demoed and Hinckley that led it. In Atlanta, it was Benson who did it. He was already getting quite old, and had a hard time keeping his arm in the air. He kept smacking himself in the face with his hankie.
By the way, speaking of realizing how wierd things can be, we had Stake Conference this past weekend. A couple spoke that had been living together until about 1 1/2 years ago. The Bishop invited them to get married so as to not be living in sin. What the hell, why not. So they got married in their living room. After the one year waiting period, they were off to the temple. The man's comment was: When I went through the temple, I wondered 'what church is this???' Lots of laughs as people had to acknowledge that they had had the same thought. I still do, after 28 years.
Mt. Timpanogos Temple next to Boyd - substrate
I was about 8 feet away from BKP when he "led" us in the Hosanna Shout. At the time (and I was about as TBM as you can get), I thought Packer seemed bored, and to me he looked pretty silly up there waving a handkerchief.
It was quite wierd - T-bone
My grandma has a hankie for each dedication she's attended.
I think I used mine to wipe up a coffee spill soon after I left.
Once, while living in Germany - Sophia
And the Nauvoo Temple dedication was broadcast on the church network. I had never heard of that before. Where had I been?
A lady in our ward came back from the US with a bunch of Nauvoo Temple embroidered hankies for all the women. I think I still have it somewhere, but even then wondered what I was going to do with it.
Part of the really bizarre thing to me was our dumpy little chapel in Germany being "converted" to a temple for the services. Since we were in Germany, all the Americans there had headphones as it was translated into German.
It was kind of like the feeling I always got, sitting in the chapel during gen. conference and having to vote for the general authorities and someone there was counting the vote for the 20 people in attendance. How do they know how the voting goes now that so many people get it at home? I would like my discenting vote counted!!!
A little ranting now, but just how did that get started and when will someone stop that nonsense!
1. Years ago my (former) boyfriend's mother re-married and he and the other
siblings came under an awful lot of pressure to state that they wanted to be
sealed to his mum and her new husband, rather than his dad. The sealing did take
place (after the original sealing had been cancelled) and it left my boyfriend
feeling that he had betrayed his dad.
2. My mum in law's mother converted to the church and had to choose whether to be sealed to her sweetheart (with whom she had an illegitimate child before he was killed in the war) or her husband who had died. I can imagine that she felt similar feelings of betrayal.
3. My husband's friend died suddenly last year and because he was sealed to his (quite young) wife, she would find it really difficult to marry another mormon male, because she's already sealed. Who would want to marry someone and have kids with them just so that wife and kids can be given to another man in the CK?
4. My Mum in law's friend wanted to cancel the sealing to her deceased first husband so that she could be sealed to her present husband, but her children would not consent (their permission was required because she is female) and so that was the end of that.
I could go on.
Most of the session was pretty routine, but it got really confusing toward the end, as you can imagine. When I was directed to the veil, row by row in an orderly manner, the worker gave three distinct taps. They tried to stick to the script, but there were some problems.
Veil Worker #2: "What is wanted?"
Veil Worker #1: "Adam, having been true and faithful in all things desires to converse with the Lord through the veil for and in behalf of,..." At this point, the veil worker held the little slip of paper up so that I could read the name.
Me: "Jesus H. Christ."
Veil Worker #1: "Jesus H. Christ, who is dead. No, wait a minute, that's not right, for He lives, my ever living head! OK, scratch that. Adam, having been true and faithful in all things desires to converse with the Lord through the veil for and in behalf of Jesus H. Christ, who LIVES!"
Veil Worker #2: "Present him at the veil and his request shall be ..... Hey, wait a minute, Jesus H. Christ can't converse with the Lord. He is the Lord."
Veil Worker #2: "Well, perhaps in this case 'the Lord' is referring to Elohim. They are distinct personages, you know."
Veil Worker #1: "No, that doesn't make sense. We start out by saying that Adam desires to converse with the Lord, and I remember reading something from Brigham Young that said that Adam is Elohim, so 'the Lord' he's supposed to represent has to be Jehovah."
Veil Worker #2: "OK, OK. Just forget about it and present him at the veil and his request will be granted." There was one more little hitch when I was giving all the tokens and names.
Veil Worker #2: "What is that?"
Me: "The first token of the Melchizedek priesthood."
Veil Worker #2: "Has it a name?"
Me: "It has."
Veil Worker #2: "Will you give it to me?"
Me: "I will through the veil. ME! Ha ha ha." They really didn't appreciate my attempt to introduce some levity into the situation. Oh well. I figure that even though I'm an evil apostate, I'll still slide on in to the Celestial Kingdom because Jesus H. Christ owes me one.
Thus spake Mujun.
One time in the Seattle temple I was in a packed session. About two minutes into the session the dude up front stands up and stops the narrative. Then a women rushes out the back. We are all just sitting there wondering what the hell is going on. A minute later, the woman comes back in with one of those small juice cans in hand. She hands it off to an old woman in the front row. So, the narrative is started again. About a minute later I hear the distinct sound that a pop can makes when you pop the top. You know “pft”. Except it was real loud. Then a minute later, we all hear a burp. This old woman belched after having a drink in an endowment session. I almost burst out laughing. So, the movie finally startes. About 5 minutes into the old woman gets up and starts walking to the back out the door. I assumed she had too much to drink and needed to use the toilet. Turns out my assumption was right. So, as expected we all waited 20 minutes in silence for the old bird to take care of business. Finally she comes back and the movie is started again. Then after a few minutes, I kid you not, she farted, and says loud enough for everyone to hear, “Was that me?”
I know it sounds unbelievable but my TBM (True Believing Mormon) wife tells the same story.
One of the funniest stories I heard was that one time in the London or Preston temple, when it came to the end part when they show you how to go through the veil, the worker in front of the veil hit the mallet three times and the worker behind the veil put his hand through the veil. But I guess one of them was standing in the wrong place, so the guy putting his hand through the veil was behind the other worker so the guy in front of the veil didn't see the hand come through and just stands there waiting because as far as he knows, no hand has come through the veil. So then he knocked three more times. There is some rule that the worker behind the veil is not allowed to speak, so when the worker in front knocked again the guy behind the veil started frantically waving his hand around. It took them bloody ages and quite a few knocks with the mallet before they figured it out. And apparently it was hysterically funny to watch.
As an art student at BYU-Hawaii, I became involved with a process of creating individualized dolls of people by printing a drawing of their face--made into a caricature--onto white silk. This was sewn up by another student. The result was kind of a pillow-doll. I was hoping to sell these to the tourists. You know, create an individualized doll of them with a Hawaiian body--for example, they might be dancing the hula.
Being a good Mormon, I thought I could create dolls like this of the first presidency. At that time it was Benson, Monson, and I believe Faust. These dolls were created. The bodies were in suits and ties. They looked like them, and were very cute-professional dolls. I decided I would like to send these to them. I contacted the temple president, J. Arthur Haycock and made an appointment to meet. He wanted our meeting to be in his office in the temple.
I wanted to get his reaction, and see if he would be willing to give me their addresses, so that I could send each of them a set of these dolls as a gift. He told me I should send them to the church administration building in Salt Lake. I guess I was a bit disappointed in his response, as I never sent them.
As an exmo now, I think this is a funny image, me in the temple with my first presidency dolls. I think in the history of Mormonism, I have a unique distinction with my doll episode.
This week a friend told me that they had been instructed to not have painted tonails when attending the temple. I'm not sure if this is church wide, or just her local temple that is issuing the directive.
At first I was trying to think why this mattered, as I couldn't remember ever seeing a woman's tonails in the temple. But I guess when doing initiatory work or baptisms, ones tonails might actually be showing. So now, they can't be painted.
I'm bewildered as I try to understand what the motivation is here. Are painted tonails a show of too much worldliness?
Things just keep getting stranger and stranger...
Deutsche: Stupid Nazi cult! If this post is correct the damn Mormon Church is beginning to resemble the Nazis more with every passing year.
Ghost of Briggie: Blood toenail atonement! A pair of dirty pliers will be available to the dannite temple workers to ritually remove the offending toenails. Allow the blood to spill upon the soil so that the smoke for the offend toenail will rise to heaven.
ausgaz: Maybe there is a new "Sure Sign of the Nail?"
Polygamy Porter: I'd like to see a woman paint her toenails with the following letters starting from the left pinky toe: F U C K - Y O U
That would tell the depends patrol how she felt about the toenail painting ban in the Mormon Mason fun house!
Jabulon: Rant. When I was a TBM (True Believing Mormon) I was removed from a temple session because I had no "SOCKS" on.
I have a back injury sustained whilst serving in the armed forces and now I cannot bend to reach my feet, as I was going to the temple without my wife I worn no socks at all. Then in the session this officious little prick told me I had to leave because I was not suitably dressed. I explained the problem but it was like talking to the golden plates.
I found out then that if you swear at someone in the temple no angel with a flaming sword appears to strike you down. LOL
I left and never went back. And I had no painted toes!
And anyway:- WHY ONE PAIR OF EARINGS? How is ONE pair good and TWO pairs bad? What if they were ONE pair but NOT matching? What if the were on your nipples (or elsewhere?!?!?!?!) and not your ears? Why are women righteous enough to wear earrings but men aren't?
wcg: According to Jack Johnson:
It's as simple as something that everyone knows
that her mind is as clear as her temple-y toes
on the feet of a queen who needs toenail clippers,
'Glad her feet are all covered with white slippers.
Lucibelle: Hi my "new name" is Lucy and I just got a pedicure...Hi Lucy.
lump: When DW and I were married in the Logan temple some 25+ years ago, my wife had her fingernails painted bright red. She was politely told that they were too 'bright' for the temple and she found some stuff to remove it.
What can I say? They are a bunch of fanatics.
I once gave my husband a blow job right in the parking lot of the Los Angeles temple, so he would not make me go through a boring session that night.
He took me out to dinner instead. A Friday night well spent!
About 10 years ago I was sitting in a session in the Provo temple, dazing in and out of consciousness. The lights come on and the HAL-9000-like voice coming out of nowhere tells us to arise to recieve the next round of secret handshakes.
So as the old temple worker guy is walking around shaking hands, suddenly he rips one of those long farts that varies in pitch and timbre; almost like his ass is trying to say something to us.
My gut reaction was to laugh out loud, but I was standing on holy ground in the presence of God and angels and probably the dead guy I was doing the temple work for. So I held the laugh in, which only made it worse. My head felt like it was going to explode. My face turned red, I bit down hard on my lip, my eyes started watering, and I looked at the guy next to me, who was also trying everything in his power to stifle himself, which compounded my inability to contain. I closed my eyes, and my head was shaking because I couldn't take it anymore.
Suddenly something popped in my head. I blood vessel somewhere up in my sinuses burst and blood came rushing down. I caught most of it with my hands, which were quickly being covered with blood (how appropriate for a cultish ceremony, eh?). I tilted my head back and after a few minutes the blood stopped. I was too embarrassed to bail out of the ceremony, so I uncharacteristically licked the blood off my hands and completed the ceremony. Afterwards, in the dressing room I noticed that I still had blood on my face. I probably looked like a cult-o-zoid wandering around the celestial room with my masonic robes, baker hat, and bloody face. Oh well. It was memorable.
During my first and only experience of baptism for the dead at the Provo Temple in the late Seventies, I was told to shower and then dress in the white clothes. I stripped down, and I took a wrong turn from the locker room to where I thought the showers were, and I walked stark frigging naked right into the baptismal font room where the brethren were baptizing a girl. Her eyes locked onto me and got very round.
I was mortified at the time, but it's funny as hell now.
In San Diego county today, I was listening to the radio before I went shopping, and apparently this morning, on their morning show, they had been talking about the Mormon temple ceremony and how people have to stay outside.
A woman called in and said that she used to be Mormon, and explained why people stay outide, even though they were invited to the ceremony, and the DJ said, so basically you are tailgating at a wedding! And then he said he's gonna get his BBQ and get some links going while he's waiting!
It probably isnt that funny when I tell it, but its hysterical since they are using the conversation as a morning show ad for today! Oh I wonder how many Mormons got a bug up their ass from his comment.
Christmas Presents for endowed family members!
You need four maxis' to make a pair. Two of them get laid out flat, for the foot part. The other two wrap around the toe area to form the top. Tape or glue each side of the top pieces to the bottom of the foot part. Decorate the tops with whatever you desire, white silk flowers, etc.
Salt Lake City,
January 14, 2005
The First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made the following announcement:
"As the work of the Lord progresses it must take into account the state of the world in which it rolls forth. The images and metaphors of one generation have a different meaning and nuance when observed by another. Although the Endowment itself does not change the form of the endowment ceremony may be translated not only to different languages but adjusted to different and differing cultural environments.
"Therefore after prayerful consideration the Brethren have re-fitted the Endowment Ceremony as a Rock Opera. Temple patrons may be assured that the sanctity of the Temple will not be violated. All electric guitars and amplifiers will be purest white and the volume will never rise above 5 on the dial.
"We hope that these adjustments will enable the rising generation of Latter-day Saints to more fully appreciate the temple and the spirit that should accompany temple worship. To all who have let their temple attendance lapse we invite you to return to the temple.
"We will, we will endow you!"
Gordon B. Hinckley
Thomas S. Monson
James E. Faust
Homo sapien, I baptize you for and on behalf of Homo Erectus, who is extinct....but had a large brain and small teeth and walked always upright.
Homo sapien, I baptize you for and on behalf of Homo habilis, who is extinct....but had a small brain and large teeth and sometimes walked upright
Homo sapien, I baptize you for and on behalf of Australopithecus afarensis, who is extinct....and was not quite homo, and it appears existed right at the point in time where evolution split into homo and parathropus. - 12/23/2004 - ThanksLucy
I was having dinner at my parents place. I don't know how the subject came up, but we started talking about the KKK (the clan not ol' Boyd). My father mentioned that, as far a he is concerned, the KKK is nothing but a secret combination. The KKK, as my father explained, went around in robes and a hood and had secret rituals so they must be a secret combination.
After this I said, "Well don't you wear funny costumes and do things in secret?". I have never seen my fathers face turn so red. I thought his head was about to burst. He told me that I shouldn't make fun of things I don't understand (you see, except for baptisms for the dead, I've never been to the temple). I told him I wasn't making fun of anything, only pointing out that the temple ceremony sounds like something a secret combination would do.
After this my Mother broke in and changed the conversation. My father wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the night. I wish I could get my parents out of the Morg. I just don't see it happening though.
If Mormons can baptise dead Jews, why can't Jews circumcise dead Mormons?
After a Mormon has been dead for thirteen years, they can have a Bar Mitzvah for the dead too.
p.s. Any volunteers for circumcision by proxy? - 04/22/2004 - from Nephihaha
On the way home from church, my mind wandered onto things we might do by proxy to the dead. I told my husband he and I could have Bach sealed to us, then, brag about being parents of one of the greatest musical geniuses in history.
The possibilities of manipulating and defaming the dead are endless, thanks to Mormonism's dead dunking concept. - Amanda
Early Morning Seminary for the Dead.
Tithing settlement for the dead. - Buick
Surely the dead need the benefit of partaking of the Bread and Wine. Of course, if you want to make it Pizza and Beer, that'd probably be just as efficacious.
I'd like to "bury" my testimony for and on behalf of ______________ who is dead. - Johnny Ransom
Seems like truth and eternal justice would demand 2nd anointings be available for the more valiant deceased nevermos.
What better reward for, say a famous politician, than to have his calling and ELECTION made sure. Heil to the man...! - Shummie
I celebrate this beautiful Easter Day for and in behalf of... Jesus, who is dead...or is he??? - Amanda
After rigor mortis has set in, we can have their "calling and erection made sure." - Kim
Eating and drinking for the dead is a great way to cheat on a diet. For isn't it recorded in scripture that we should "eat, drink and be merry for the dead, for yesterday they died" or something like that?
Why just last week I performed several eating ordinances for dead people.
"I [fill-in-name of proxy] do eat this raspberry cheesecake for [Jane Doe] who is dead, in the name of the Graham Cracker Crust, the Raspberry Topping and the Holy Cream Cheese, amen."
There are many who have passed on without having the chance to enjoy many of your finer desserts during the period of their mortal probation. I hear that the line of spirits waiting to have dessert eating ordinances performed on their behalf is much longer than the baptism and endowment lines. - Perry Noid
The man I was engaged to was not drunk by high on meth when we went to the temple one evening. I could not figure out why he was so fidgety and was being really nasty-ass to me and accusing me of things that never happened. I was driving and decided to turn around and go back home. He became so enraged and I was so scared that I turned around again and headed back toward the temple. He goes into the temple, shows his recommend and acts like Mother Theresa. He had pulled the Jekyll/Hyde thing on me before and I was going to break off the relationship anyway. Before the film begins I can see him on the other side of the room jiggling his leg, wiping his face and shaking his arms frequently. I wanted to get up and leave him there. There were other ward members there who could have taken him home.
Anyway...I broke up with him three days later and his mother calls begging me to attend the "intervention" to get him into rehab. She believed that once he was out of rehab he would be "back to normal" and we could get married. He never went to rehab and wound up being arrested a few days later. He and another guy in the Stake were making the stuff.
If they did, they'd not have the bungled mess of patrons wasting incredible amounts of time performing ordinances over and over again for the same people.
They'd figure out a way to fix the problem.
The real reason they don't fix the problem is that ultimately, they don't care about temple work.
The temples are simply used as a pretext to collect tithing. Without temple recommends, the church would be forced to beg for money. The temple recommend spares them that "indignity."
The church only cares that the members attend the temple regularly not because of something they might learn or do in the temple, but rather to keep the members tithing faithfully.
"Would you like lies with that" about the new Mctemple ceremonies - Ronald McTempleworker
Our spiritual menu comes from "The Doctrine & Couplets." - Tyler
I've always thought of McTemples as sit-down coffee shops: The International House of Handshakes. - PtLoma
McTemples? Don't forget to plug "Burger King & Queen, Priest and Priestesses." They serve whoppers upon the five points of pickles, onions, mustard, catsup and mayo through the veil/drive-up.
Actually I have a strong testimony of Big MacConkies which taste much better than those "footlong hot dogmas" they serve in the Church Office Building cafeteria. - cricket
Back when I was a college student (1990) near Washington, DC, a good friend of mine started dating a young LDS. I think you'd classify him as a cultural Mormon. Anyway, he used to party with us, and eventually agreed to allow me to borrow his Recommend for a visit. I purchased all of the necessary articles of clothing through him, and he prepped me on what to expect when I entered the DC Temple. Because I smoke, I quit for three days and kept all of my dress clothing, white clothing and Temple attire stashed away so that there would be no odor. I also placed Band-Aids on my index and middle fingers to cover up any nicotine stains. Looked like I had bashed my hand. To my benefit, I was thin, bookish-looking and non-threatening in those days, so I doubt I would have raised any internal alarms within the people.
Then on a Saturday in July (a week before my birthday, if I remember correctly) I walked through the doors, presented the recommend, and changed into my all-white clothing with Session Envelope in hand. Sat through the Endowment, which wasn't nearly as boring at the time since I was scared shitless. I knew about the legends about angels guarding the Temple, and that Patrons and Workers might be given the discernment to find out that I was a major Gentile. It didn't happen, but still....
Considering that I come from a religious tradition where sacred places and rituals are very elaborate and grandiose, I was immediately struck by the blandness of everything around me. I'll be the very first to admit that the Washington Temple is a beautiful structure. The gardens are lush, and the interior is quite nice. But it wasn't what I was expecting in what was known as the House of the Lord. It's kind of difficult to explain, but the Temple's interior had the same kind of elegance that you would expect in a high-class hotel, restaurant or residence. Nothing really seemed to be discernibly sacred to me. Maybe it was the fake flowers in the vases. Again, I'll attribute that to my heritage. It was really unusual to have dressing rooms in a religious structure, and I thought that the lockers were overkill. I thought to myself as I was shaking and changing into my white clothing, "Why have locks in the Temple? Shouldn't this be the one place on earth where you should be able to trust people?" Then the Chapel within the Temple struck me as being a slightly classier version of a Meeting House. I did appreciate the portrait of Christ above the lectern area; I thought it was a nice piece. Come to think about it, I don't remember there being all that much artwork in the Temple.
Perhaps what astounded me the most was being taken to the Ordinance Room, and it looking like a small theatre. I knew that is what I would be entering, but I suppose it hadn't sunk in until I was seated in the comfy seat. I think I entered the Ordinance Room expecting to see something really esoteric and arcane, and I was very disappointed in the end. While I was seated in the Ordinance Room, I split my concentration between the film, which became really tedious, and the people around me. The Creation portion of the film was nearly maddening, almost on the level of boredom unheard of before. I would take quick glances around me, attempting to see the faces of those around me, and I noticed that the individuals I saw looked at best bemused with the whole situation. From what I could tell, the women seemed to be far more intense about the Endowment than the men. Also, I was amused by the fact that Satan was the best character in the whole drama, which Im sure was not the intention of the liturgical gurus in Salt Lake City.
When the film was stopped for giving the signs and tokens, I realized that there was no way in hell that I could memorize all of this stuff, and that it must require quite a few sessions in order for people to know everything well enough. I managed to get through everything, and thankfully I wasn't asked to be part of the "witness couple". That would have been a total nightmare. I did get brought up for the True Order of Prayer, and I'm very thankful that I was wearing the Temple Robes, for I was really perspiring like a son-of-a-bitch. I have to say that the True Order of Prayer was probably my favorite part, for it seemed to me to be somewhat comforting, even though we were merely repeating what the leader said (and my elbows were on the shoulders of people taller than myself). There was something "nice" about that, although for the life of me I cant imagine the reason why the women covered their faces with those veils. I mean, they could still see everything that was going on through the mesh.
The ordeal at the Veil went pretty well, although I was somewhat disappointed by the construction of the Veil. I guess I expected it to be more impressive. Anyway, I suppose because of my youth and the sincere, reverent expression on my face (and perhaps because I'm male), the Veil Worker was very patient with me. I kept getting the Aaronic signs and tokens messed up, but eventually I was pulled through the Veil into the Celestial Room. The Celestial Room was very beautiful, but I found it strange that the most sacred room on earth lacked any religious symbols or artwork -- at least I didn't see any. It was obvious that a considerable amount of planning and design went into the Celestial Room by whomever, but it left me feeling detached and cold for some reason. Maybe if the Temple Workers didn't attempt to herd us around like cattle it would have felt more spirit-filled. I did want to spend a little bit of time in the Celestial Room, just to see if I could "feel" the presence of the Divine. I was asked by some guy in an all-white suit if I would mind doing another Session, but considering I was nearing exhaustion from the stress, I informed him that I had to visit my Mother in the hospital. He said that he would add her name to the list, or something like that. With that, I got dressed and left. Naturally, the first thing I did was, once I was out of Kensington, light up a cigarette (or several).
My father was furious that I did such a thing, not so much because I trespassed on Sacred Ground, but that I could have wound up in a Maryland State Prison for criminal trespassing, which is very much true. Looking back on what I did, I can state with "every fiber of my being" that I'd NEVER do it again, and I would never encourage anyone to attempt what I did. At the same time, I most assuredly did not enter the Temple to mock the ordinances or test the divine protection factor. I will tell you with absolute sincerity that the only thing I wanted to do was to know the truth about what happened behind the marble walls. I wanted to know if what Ed Decker said in his book and film was true, and I did learn that the LDS Endowment is far less sinister than the National Honor Society's initiation (in my opinion, anyway). Okay, this is probably going to sound silly, but I actually took the vows I made in the Temple seriously to a degree, for I couldn't imagine hurting another religion -- and you lurkers out there can accept that or not.
I haven't discussed this event in my life for over a decade, since I didn't want to offend the religious sensibilities of others. Then I was introduced to the Ex-Mormon movement by SuzieQ#1, and saw that there was tremendous suffering caused by this religion. That's when I finally admitted to it. What she showed me -- with evidence -- brought me out of my little intellectual shell of studying some unusual religion to finally admitting that it was far too abusive. And she knows this to be the case -- I used to think that SuzieQ#1 was just bitter, but it wasn't until one major incident two years ago that I finally accepted the facts, and here it is...
My Priest is elderly and infirm, and pretty much retired from the active ministry. Since he's not doing all that much, he has been working on his family tree, which is a decent enough diversion. Anyway, Father asked me if I knew of any software resources for entering information into a family tree database, and I told him that the best place to find that would be at the local LDS bookstore in Kensington, Maryland (not too far from the Temple). So I drove him to the store. I was wearing standard clothes (but with my gold Russian CTR ring -- more about that later), he was wearing his clerics. He's a priest, so why not? It was a ferociously hot day, very humid, and Father was having trouble walking up the stairs to the bookstore. At the top of the stairs were a group of adults and teenagers in their "Sunday best", who just stood there watching this old man hobble up the stairs on my left arm. Not once did these individuals attempt to assist this human being. When we finally made it to the glass door, and Father was dripping with sweat, this rotund man wearing a very thin blue shirt so that you could see the stitched garment markings threw open the door, let it slam, and walked down the stairs. We finally made it into the store, and these little boys kept bumping into Father as he was walking along with his cane. I took Father to the software section, and he picked up the program, looked around for different books, and purchased a few titles that caught his eye -- with the little boys still bumping into him. Considering the fact that my temper has never been all that pleasant, I was nearing the boiling point. As I picked up a copy of "Mormon Doctrine", I noticed my CTR ring (it was a gift from a friend who died a while back). So I started flashing it a bit, and all of a sudden the attitudes of the people in the store changed. I'm not making this up in the least. It was remarkable, but I had such loathing for them. But it was amazing just how cordial everyone became. Disgusting bastards. That night, I discussed with SuzieQ#1 what had happened, and that I now understood what she was talking about. It was then that I realized that these people deserve to be informed about just how damned easily they are fooled. I admitted to SuzieQ#1 that she was right, that these people are xenophobic morons. It was a fucking bookstore, for God's sake.
Now I have nothing but contempt for these people, and if there's anything I can do to assist in revealing the truth, I will. That's one of the reasons I hang out here at the Bulletin Board, aside from the fact that I'm addicted to the wit and humor of Ex-Mormons. I do truly admire you guys, and I thank you for tolerating my presence.
What are the conclusions I reached about the Endowment after all these years? Overall, I wish they had had the death-oaths in the Endowment when I attended. They would have made it far more interesting. And I can say with utter conviction that the LDS Temple rituals are not Satanic. Well, aside from the fact that Satan/Lucifer is the only interesting character in the whole Endowment, there is nothing I could possibly consider as being overwhelmingly esoteric and dripping with occult symbolism. Perhaps the LDS Church would do well to add more occult symbolism and ritual to the Endowment, and get rid of that lousy movie.
This will be a new year but it will also be the first time in more than 25 years I WILL NO LONGER HAVE A CURRENT TEMPLE RECOMMEND!!!! yes, I have been waiting for this day for a long time. I was going to lose it last year but the church extended the recommend to two years so I got another year. My Bishop never bothered to take it away even when he was informed of my non belief. I think they get more ward budged from SLC for the more temple goers they have.
As I was laying in bed this morning and thinking about it I recalled my last visit to the temple a few months ago and had a good laugh. Since they let me keep it for another year I thought I would go for the last time on my terms. so I went off to the temple with my G's back on. When I got there I changed out of them and put on a pair of my wife's red thong panties. The funny thing was, wearing my G's again was much more uncomfortable than the women's thong panties. If you haven't figured it out yet I'm a guy. As I walked to the session I lengthened my stride not because of Spencer Kimball's advice but because I had a string up my ass and my nuts were getting squeezed. So I got my new name and proceeded to change it to "FUCK YOU" I like that and I figured if the church was true surly after repeating that several time in the temple one of the inspired workers would be prompted that evil was present and expose me. No such luck.
I remember looking around during the session in amazement of how much everyone looked so unhappy and robot like. There was also a very nice looking sister in the session and I tried to have every impure thought I could about her. Again, just to test the inspiration of the workers. When I got home I was feeling guilty so I told my wife and she said "so does this mean you would like to try a threesome someday", she laughed and walked away? Who says the temple isn't inspiring. I also did the prayer circle thing. Since I was the only guy there with out a wife they had to pull some good sister out to help me. My luck, she was so old she could of been my great grandmother. I was hoping for the hot sister I was having impure thoughts about.
When I got to the vail I screwed up the whole mantra to get into to heaven on purpose to the frustration of the old geezer at the vail. All I could remember in the celestial room was if this is what the next life is like I'm glad I'm getting out now. Adjusting my thong for the hundredth time I left the celestial room to change. As I left my locker I hung the thong on a hook in the locker with my name slip they give you in the crotch with my new name "fuck You" written on it. In my last act of defiance I put my rented clothes in the wrong laundry shoot. As I left I was told to come back soon, so much for inspired workers who are charged to protect the temple.
So after today I will no longer have a recommend to the temple, that is one thing I don't mind thanking God for. I'm so glad I went out on my own terms, it was like a therapy session for me helping me get over some of my anger of what they have stolen from me. The only unpleasant thing about this was my wife made me go to Victoria's Secret and get her a new thong. I'm still waiting for the threesome, maybe next Christmas.
Reminds me of a few years ago when I was a randy, young (closeted) Homo; had a little mutual masturbation session with another hot missionary-to-be in the changing room of the Slick City Tempull. And we did give sweet offerings unto the Lord. It wasn't until I was outside the tempull and the adrenaline rush left that I realized we hadn't been struck deaf and dumb, AND the tempull was still standing. Yet another chink in the rapidly crumbling walls of my testimony. I was also felt up a couple of times by the old trolls doing washing and annointings. One geezer was particularly salacious with me on two or three occasions (I was a frequent attender, fascinated by this bizarre, Masonicesque cultic practice). I probably should have done him, just for the good karma points, but I wasn't big on mercy fucks at the time....live and learn!
And finally, lest ye forget the magic, alchemical words when approaching the angelic guardians of the See Lestial Kingdumb:
Health in the navel and marrow in the bones,
Health in the navel and marrow in the bones,
Health in the navel and marrow in the bones,
Strength in the loins and sinews.
Power in the priesthood be upon me,
Power in the priesthood be upon me,
Power in the priesthood be upon me,
And on my posterity!
Through all generations of time,
Through all generations of time,
Through all generations of time,
And throughout eternity!
The clothing is very cool. It is obvious the church has taken great pains and millions of dollars to research clothing styles that its patrons would feel most comfortable in.
First off you wear white pants and shirt and white slippers. Nothing but the finest space age materials mind you! The pants are especially designed to be extra tight in the crotch so any attempt at getting a hard on are instantly stiffled.
Once in the endowment rooms where the temple rituals take place you start to put on the other articles of cloting at various stages. You start by adding to your already very hip white clothing a white sash that makes the wearer so proud and happy. You feel like you are a superman or superwomsn clothed in glory. It flows off of your body like it was made of the finest silk. Next comes a totally happening green apron that has these raised embroidered designs. It is so soft that just touching it can cause heightened sexual feelings. Surely the holy ghost himself is right dab smack in the green apron being part of the material itself.
The crowning achievement of the temple syle is a hat that is worn with the greatest of pride. It has ribbed elastic cloth that keeps it snug and tight even as the patron is jumping up and down in flailing ritualistic motions. Tell me, what gentile fabric is so versatile?!
One truly feels as if no culinary treat is out of their ability to create. The hat endows its wearer with the unparalled confidence to bake, cook and create the finest cuisines the world has ever seen. Now mind you the hat is tied to the sash to create and bind the two into one creation of style hitherto unknown to the catwalks of Milan or Paris. Paris Hilton has been begging on hands and knees the church to allow her the sewing designs, but they have flatly refused her.
The best part of the clothing is that the reminders of the glory of the clothing are actually imprinted on the wearers body. For hours afterwords one can merely reach up and feel the indentions the tight elastic hat made on the hair and still feel the lord right there in the smashed down hair.
God it is great
My first trip to the temple was far from ordinary. Baptised at age 17, I wasn't allowed to enter the temple until I had been a member for at least one year (this policy seems to have changed now, at least in Sydney where I live). So just after my 18th birthday and ordination to the "useful" priesthood, I was priveleged to attend the temple with a bunch of snotty youth from my ward.
When we arrived the bishop mentioned to the temple worker that I had just been ordained an elder in the melchizedek priesthood, and was planning on serving a mission when I turned 19. I suppose his hearing aid wasn't working properly, because next thing I know I was asked to baptise the youth. Being the obedient TBM that I was, I presumed the old man knew what he was talking about. So there I was in my first trip to the temple, merrily baptising corpses when after about 40 baptisms, I overheard my bishop say to the worker "I didn't know elders could baptise. I always thought you had to be endowed first".
The worker jumped up and screamed "WHAT?! he's not endowed? GET OUT! GET OUT RIGHT NOW!" Out of the font I got, ordered to get changed and wait for the others to finish. Being the TBM I was, I felt I had committed the unpardonable sin, and with the subsequent stares I got from the temple fogies, they sure seemed so too.
My endowment was less eventful, but just as meaningless. At first I though maybe there was something wrong with me, as I got cold chills every time we were ordered to stand up and make covenants. At first each session was mentally draining as I sat and "pondered" what sort of deep doctrinal secrets the movie and subsequent rituals were supposed to divulge. I would rack my brains in the celestial room trying to have a spiritual experience, when all I could think in the back of my mind is "this is a crock". I admit I would like to go back again now in my enlightened state and enjoy the temple again. I wonder if someone will lend me their recommend...
I used to think I was the only one this had ever happened to...of course, as a TBM I never talked about it to anyone, so now I can talk about it to exmos. Kilgore told me once that he had never heard a woman have this experience, but he'd heard it from a GUY or two. I was just glad to know I wasn't the only one it had ever happened to.
The last time I went through an endowment session was in 1981. I was pretty TBM and kept up my recommend for years after that, but only used it to go to sealing sessions because I was so freaked out by the "six points" that I couldn't go through an endowment again. Also, because I had such a bad feeling about it, I decided I couldn't go through until I could have a better attitude or I'd be bringing Satan into the temple with me and I'd be struck dead.
In the old ceremony when you went through the veil, you did the 5 points of fellowship with your legs, feet, chest, etc. together touching the person on the other side--usually some old geezer. The last time I went through I was giving back the "Health in the Navel, blah, blah, blah" stuff and kept thinking the guy was poking me in the stomach with his knee. About half-way through, I realized it wasn't his knee! I was getting an extra 6th point, if you get my drift.
I was trying to say the words without crying because I was so freaked--I was also still quite naive and unworldly. Maybe it wouldn't have hit someone else so hard. I went back to the dressing room and cried and always wanted to tell someone, but knew I couldn't. I never went through an endowment again.
When I took out my own endowment I had an experience during the washing and anointing which put me off doing them for a long time. I had a younger trainee temple worker being supervised by an older man; both were Maori. When the trainee both washed and anointed my "loins", he managed to get a bit too personal with my loins. Both times I jumped back.
When it came to puting on the garment - the old type that were laced up the front - he started to do up the laces and started with the "loin" area. The older man noticed my discomfort and brushed the younger guy aside and told me to do up the bottom ones and he started to do up the top couple. After that I never went to get a yellow name slip, which required doing the whole endowment but would go and get changed first and then go and wait for the green slips which only needed going through the non-initiatory ordinances.
i too attended the temple to do baptisms for the dead when i had my period. it was about '92 i think, in sydney, and infact no-one asked if any of us girls were menstruating.. i had a tampon in so just went for it.. i did actually think about it tho, and wonder if it was right or not.. thank goodness no-one asked me about it - i would have cried my little heart out!! i never went back to the temple after that.. i felt that i should censor myself before the bishop had a chance to LOL!! - 08/10/2003 - anon
(From page 78 of "Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints", an official church publication)
"I see the temple and think of being married there someday" said [name deleted], age 16, of Oslo, Norway. "I know the promises you make in the temple are promises with the Lord. The things you learn there won't just change or disappear."
(From Perry Noid, who is no longer an official publication of the church.)
If you plan on getting married there be prepared for genuine disappointment. If some of your or your spouse's family are not members of the Mormon Church, they will not be allowed to witness the wedding ceremony. The wedding ceremony itself is not particularly deep or meaningful in content. It takes place in a relatively small room and is much less romantic than the traditional non-Mormon weddings that you are used to seeing.
As for the promises made "with the Lord", there is no reason to believe that a temple is necessary for you to make promises to whatever Lord it is that you worship. The old men in SLC want you to believe that the temple provides some kind of new and improved connection with God that you can't get anywhere else. This is how they sell you on the idea of paying 10% of your yearly income to essentially buy a 1-year pass to enter the temple. Believe me it's not worth the price of admission. Nothing in the temple draws you closer to the Lord, to nature or to whatever good thing it is you want to draw close to. The temple draws you closer to cranky, old temple workers, who will tsk-tsk and scold you at the drop of a hat.
You can feel more spiritual peace and joy in a nicely appointed lobby of a deluxe hotel.
Sitting next to a babbling brook in a mountain forest is exactly 235.23% more of a spiritual high than going to the temple.
To some extent, what you feel is up to you no matter where you are, but the temple is not conducive to peaceful, spiritual feelings. The temple and its busy work rituals actually serve as a distraction that makes it harder to feel spiritual peace and tranquility. People bend over backwards and strain to interpret the temple experience as something "special" because they are under tremendous peer pressure to do so--just like the Emperor's New Clothes.
As for the things you learn being things that "won't just change or disappear", please be advised that I went through the temple before 1990. At that time I learned a super secret/sacred embrace called the "Five Points of Fellowship". The temple ceremony has since been changed and that secret/sacred embrace has disappeared. I also learned three different bloody oaths, whereby I was made to act out gory self-mutilation/execution acts that would be "penalties" I would suffer if I were to reveal the secrets of the temple. Fortunately, those bloody oaths and penalties have also disappeared.
But if you want to know the big secret of the temple, it's this: there is nothing in the temple worth learning.
She told me she was surprised at how wierd it was. All this hype and no real substance. She said she almost laughed when she saw other people dressed in those silly outfits. She didn't get it. She talked about her dismay at a relief society meeting. Shortly after that she was told the bishop wanted to see her. She never went. She told me, " I dont need him to tell me how my temple experience should be" - 06/21/2003 - PMF of the Recovery from Mormonism bulletin board.
As our myriad ancestors down to the hoary recesses of antiquity are nothing but spooky shades gathering dust down in Hades (despite Mormon claims to the contrary), I propose that we do something to raise their spirits.
SEX FOR THE DEAD!
Exmo's could exchange emails and photographs before pairing up with their chosen partner in anticipation of a most energetic weekend, with the charitable aim of cheering up our long lost dead (who no longer have the ability to get it on)!
Not only would this be the most sublime form of ancestor worship (the oldest religion in civilization) it would also bring us closer to our sumerian and greek roots where temple worship did, in fact, include ritual sex in the temple.
It is time for the restitution of ALL things.
Join the SEX FOR THE DEAD campaign by submitting you contact information and suggestions below, and let's make this dream a reality (maybe at the next burning man?)
Here's a copy of a letter to the editor that I sent to the Salt Lake City Weekly. Unfortunately, it was never printed:
To the Editor:
I have heard many of my Mormon co-workers and acquaintances shrug off the proxy baptisms of Jewish Holocost victims by the LDS church. The prevailing attitude seems to be, "If you don't believe it, then it shouldn't make any difference."
I agree. This shouldn't be at all offensive to anyone, even if their family members may have died for their own religious beliefs. I'd like to send out the a certificate to families of recently deceased mormons. The following example would be sent to the family member of a son who dies while serving a mission. Now, remember, if you don't believe it, it shouldn't be offensive:
Dear Brother and Sister Smith:
"We send our sincere condolences in this difficult and trying time. Please know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and that there is a special ray of light and hope for you and your family."
"We are pleased to announce that your son, Nephi, is now a homosexual. He was posthumously inducted into our organization along with Spencer W. Kimball, in a sacred initiatory ritual known as 'Buggery for the Dead'"
"You will be excited to know that Nephi won the coin toss and was allowed to be the top in the posthumous pairing and Spencer was the bottom. In case you are not aware, top and bottom mean, respectively, buggerer and buggeree. They are sacred terms in Librachese, the ancient homosexual code revealed to us by a Friend of Dorothy."
"It was my great privilege to stand in for Nephi...especially since the man who bent over in Spencer's stead was one celestial piece of hiney!"
"You can be proud of this moment and rest assured that everything was done properly as I have either buggered or been buggered many times in the past for such notable heterosexuals as Brigham Young, Joseph Stalin and Rock Hudson (just to be sure)."
"You should also feel extremely blessed that Nephi was the top in this pairing. As you may or may not know, there are many more bottoms in the world than there are tops. Therefore, Nephi will be able to bugger and bugger with literally thousands of bottoms from all the ages of humanity! Think about it: promiscuous sex for all eternity!"
"Don't worry if either your son was already a homosexual in this life. One more act of buggery won't hurt!"
"If you would like to know more about how you, too, can stand in for a proxy buggering for departed friends, family members or celebrities, please contact me. It is our goal to bugger or be buggered for every individual who has ever lived on the face of the earth."
"In order to enter into this sacred covenant you will strip down to just a jockstrap and then be ritually 'douched and fondled' by a man not less than seventy years old. First-timers are generally required to be the 'bottom' but, depending on your own special endowment, exceptions can be made (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)."
"Rest assured, there will be two special witnesses in attendance at every buggering. If it's not done right the first time, we will bugger and bugger until it is!"
"Unfortunately, at this time only men are allowed to participate in these speshul, sacred couplings. Work is under way, however, to complete a complementary ritual for women. We are excited at the prospect of inducting Anita Bryant and Gail Ruzicka into our organization although I am at a loss to figure out which one will be 'butch' and which one will be 'femme'."
"As a special offer, those to sign up for posthumous buggery no later than June 30, 2003 will be entered into a special drawing. The first four names drawn will be able to stand in for Boyd K. Packer and Jerry Falwell! They have been chosen to be in the special class of 'versatile' and therefore will both posthumously bugger and be buggered!"
National Co-Ordinator of Posthumous Buggery
I had sex with my partner at the time, who was also an exmo, in a chapel. We
were going to a meeting, we got there early, we went up into the balcony, and we
got "frisky" (there is that watered down enough for the
Another time, I was in the LA temple and was doing washing and annointings, it was a Stake Temple day, the temple workers all got called away to go work the veil, so I was sitting around in the "shield" sooooo, I didn't exactly have SEX but I did have an orgasm. does that count?
Once while sitting in the temple, prior to the service beginning, when ask "if there are any here that do not want to take upon themselves these obligations of secrecy... let them raise their hand". It was at this point that the person I was officiating for clearly and distintly impressed on my mind that "No, I don't not want to take upon myself these obligations, in fact put my name on your "Do not endow list!!!!!""
Food for thought.
What kind of a "group" or "religion" has wards and stakes? Come on, some of the terminology/phraseology/common TBM speak is just rediculous. Endowments? Urim and Thummon? Kolob? 5 points of fellowship through the veil? " I will through the veil? Geez, that veil is just creepy all by itself, You don't need to do the hokey pokey through the slits to make it even creepier. Not to mention the secret name given to TBM's in the temple. Name you dog with that name and you're out! All this creepy "inside" speak and the keeping secrets.
Hey, why can't you tell you best friend what the temple ceremony is really like. Why is it necessary to shock the H*** out of everyone. It could be like this: Hey Friend, tomorrow in the temple you are going to see all the people you know dressed in a way you could never imagine, you are going to see a bigoted, out of touch video that smacks of obsurdity, then you are going to dress and re-dress in goofy clothes, learn some new hand shakes, learn some new words like Pa Lay Ale, and it will all climax with an old 'MAN'reaching through a sheet asking questions to which you just learned the answers and handshakes as responses. And, everyone will be acting like it is normal. You will get used to it. - 01/31/06 - Out and Clear Headed - ladondakis
Once, while undergoing baptism for the dead, I had the sudden urge to skinny-dip in the holy font. What fun that could have been! It was bad enough to be asked if I was having my period, but thank God they didn't ask if anyone in my group were a lesbian- THEN, I would have been in a shitload of trouble! - 08/03/2002 - Jennie
TBM (True Believing Mormon) wife was supposed to teach primary yesterday. I have to give her credit because it was my week to have our little boys stay home with me. She was trading with the other teacher so we can go on a family trip later this month.
Anyway, TMB wife became ill on Sat. night and wasn't any better on Sunday moring. She must not have been feeling too good since she said, "I guess you'd never consider teaching the lesson, would you?" Given that I've gone to sacrament meeting only once in the last year (to hear my boys sing) and haven't gone to any other meeting in over two years, I quickly said no. I later realized that I blew a golden opportunity.
Since the lesson was about the temple, I could have given the 6 year-olds a lesson they'd never forget:
"Kids, the temple is a special place and we wear some special things. Now, all of the boys need to put on these cool baker's hats. You can look like the Pillsbury Dough Boy! Cool! What was that Jessica? Why don't the girls get baker's hats? Well, the church teaches that girls are different! Have you ever heard the words, 'second-class citizens'? I got these neat little veils for you to wear over your faces! What Jessica? Why don't the boys have to veil their faces in the temple? That's a great question for you to ask your dad and mom! Now, I want you to wear the hats and veils home and ask your parents why girls have to veil their faces in the temple.
But that's not all of the great clothing that you get when you go to the temple! Do any of you have parents that wear funny underwear? That's right Billy! They're called garments. Now, you're not old enough to wear garments, but I've got the next best thing. You know how wards here in Utah do those pioneer treks where they try to be like the pioneers? Well, you guys get to pretend you've been through the temple. I went by Deseret Industries and picked up these sweatshirts and sweatpants. I want you to put them on over your Sunday clothes. I know they might get a little hot since it's 104 outside, but pretend that God told you to wear them all of the time. You know, many church leaders feel that you can't be hurt if you're wearing garments, so always wear them while you're playing, even if your folks want you to take them off. Tell them that God wants you to wear them.
Another thing we learn in the temple is the best way to pray. We learn how to pray in the way God wants us to pray. I'm now going to teach you. Are any of you having your grandparents over for dinner today? That's great Jared! Do you know if they've gone to the temple? They have! They're temple workers! Great! Jared, I want you to volunteer to say the blessing at dinner today. Now, hold your arms above your head and as you lower them, say 'Pay, lay, ale'. Do it three times and see what your grandparents do. That's how Heavenly Father wants us to pray when our grandparents are around.
Yes, Mellyssa, there's a way to pray if your grandfolks aren't there, but only if your parents have gone through the temple. When you have family prayer, I want you to volunteer to say it. You raise your arms over your head and say, 'Oh God, hear the words of my mouth' three times. Don't stop, even if your parents ask you to!
Oops! Time's running out. When we go to the temple, we not only get to be called by our real name, but we get a secret name! Cool! The secret name is a name that God wants us to have. Let's practice with our families. Each of you make up names of cartoon characters and give them to your mom and dad and brothers and sisters. Tell them to remember the secret name because you'll be using it as a password. When one of them wants to come in your room to tell you something, make them tell you the secret name before they come in, just like God will after we die.
Finally, we learn a cool handshake in the temple. Come here Spencer! Here's how we do it. We put our pinkies like this. We slide them through the other person's pinky. Then we put our pointer finger on the other person's wrist. This is how God shakes hands. Let's practice! Now, as you leave today, I want you to go up to the bishop and shake his hand like that. Let's see how smart the bishop is. When you shake his hand, I want you to say, 'What is that?' Watch out though, he might get mad if he doesn't know it."
Add dreams of glory. I think I'll volunteer next time.
"I will go down....
I will go up....
I will go down and shake it.... all about,
Doing the hokey-pokey thou shalt turn thyselves around
Yea, thus verily I say unto you, that, tis what its all about."
Owing to the many moronic notions which have been put in circulation by brainwashed and mindless persons, in relation to the temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, all of which have been designed by the authors thereof to hyperbolize its character as a Church and cover up its utter nonsense in this world— I have been induced to write this history, to disabuse the public mind, and put all inquirers after truth in possession of the facts, as they have transpired, in relation both to myself and the so-called sacred nature of the temples, so far as I have such facts in my possession.
In this history I shall present the various events in relation to this arrogant Church, and our unholy and most boring trek to one of its temples, in truth and honesty, as they have transpired, or as they at present exist, being now Saturday the second day since our expedition.
I arrived at the condo of Barnabus (names have been changed to protect the guilty, and this particular name was the male temple name for that day) in the time of our Lord 6:10 PM, in the town of Sandy, Salt Lake county, State of Utah . . . Phoebe (named changed to the female temple name for that day) left the city of Provo, and arrived at the condo, when I was in my fifteenth minute there, or thereabouts.
Our party therefore consisting of three souls, namely, myself (former missionary), Barnabus (former missionary), and Phoebe (she having never been to the temple, having left the Church prior to the opportunity).
Some time in the tenth minute after my arrival, there was in the condo where Barnabus lived an unusual euphoria from the wine. It commenced with me, but soon became general among . . . well, just me. Indeed, only I seemed affected by it, and three large glasses emptied themselves into my stomach, which created no small stir and contentment amongst me, crying, “I’m a little tipsy!” and, “I need another glass of wine!” Some were filled with the Merlot, some with the Pinot Noir, and some with other Frenchy sounding words.
For, notwithstanding the great euphoria which I to these different wines expressed at the time of their drinking, and the great rush manifested by their respective consumption; yet we began to commit our forgery of the most holy temple recommends, some signed by one party and some by another, it was seen that the seemingly good signatures of both myself (Stake President Clawson of the Hyrum Utah Stake) and Barnabus (Bishop Bodily of the Hyrum 6th Ward) were actually pretty damn real looking; for a scene of great happiness and good feeling ensued—Barnabus carefully filling out the rest of his recommend, I carefully filling out mine, and Phoebe, arriving slightly thereafter, filling out hers; so that all our anxious feelings for this excursion, if we ever had any, were entirely lost in our well placed ink and carefully constructed stories.
I was playing the part of Phoebe’s brother. Phoebe and Barnabus were married to each other, and the three of us visiting our family in Sandy, namely, my mother, Lucy; my brothers Hyrum and Samuel Harrison; and my sister Sophronia, who was always a nasty little bitch.
During this time of great excitement my mind was called up to serious reflection; but I knew I had to play the part of a Mormon, so I kept myself aloof from any hint of intelligence, and I took upon myself the demeanor of a lost and stupid sheep. In process of time my mind became somewhat numb while we traveled in the car to the Jordan River Temple, and I felt good and ready for the ensuing attack of ennui; when we arrived so great were the cars and mini-vans among the different parking spots, that it was nearly impossible for people unfamiliar as we were, and so unacquainted with temples and large crowds on a snowy night, to come to any certain conclusion where to park or where the entrance was.
Our car at last was finally parked, the distance and walking in the snow were long and cold. The temple worker at the entrance was most decided against small talk, and used all his powers of both reason and the spirit to examine our recommends, or, at least, to make us think he really gave a damn. (He didn’t.) On the other hand, when I in my turn was passing this angel who stood as sentinel, he being zealous in endeavoring to stay awake and look important . . .
In the midst of his examination, He said to me: “I have a brother who lives in Hyrum, in the Paradise ward.” Which of all responses are good, I thought; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?
While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by this question of geography, I remembered reading the list of wards and stakes of Hyrum prior to filling out our recommends, second row and tenth line, which reads: Paradise 1st Ward – [some Bishop’s name] / Paradise 2nd Ward – [some Bishop’ s name].
Never did any list of names come with more power to the heart of an apostate than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my shrunken, spiritless heart. I reflected on it and asked, “Which ward is he from?” knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, this poor old guy did; for how to answer he did not know, and unless he could get more wisdom than I then had, he would never know my deceit and let me pass; for the angels who stand as sentinels of the Mormon sect are not very inspired, the apostates from the truth so easily passing detection as to destroy all confidence in the sacred, protected nature of this holy edifice.
At length I passed by; the old man remained in darkness and confusion, never answering the question I posed him, and handed the recommend back to me. If he had asked of God as James directed, God must be a real dumb shit. We, Barnabus, Phoebe, and I, at length came to the clothing rental counter to “get our packets,” concluding that if this woman here gave clothes to us who lacked worthiness, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, she too must be without the spirit of God.
So, in accordance with this, our three dollars each given to her, we received our clothes; we then retired to the locker room to make the change. It was on the ‘J’ row for me of puke yellow lockers, key 10B, directed to the location by old guys and blue arrows. It was the first time in Phoebe’s life that she had made such an attempt, for Barnabus and I amidst anxieties hoped that all would be well for her, alone and garmentless in the women’s locker room.
After we had changed to our whites, having concealed the fact that we were garmentless, having only white fruit of the loom shirts for appearance, and finding ourselves totally ready, we walked over and picked up the names of some Swedish Guys (I received Hendrick Oldencamp). We had scarcely done so, when immediately we were each seized upon by new name givers who pulled us into their booths, and had such astonishing power of discernment into our apostate conditions as to loose their tongues so that we could hear the new name. An alcohol induced happiness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were really enjoying myself.
But, exerting all my powers to at least appear to take this seriously, I remained straight faced and was delivered out of the power of this wine which had seized upon me, yea at the very moment when I was ready to call this guy an idiot and laugh in his face—he said, “Barnabus is the new name,” he checked my card with a red check, and sent me on my way—then just at this next moment of great confusion, I saw a temple worker of white exactly before my eyes, above the oldness of the earth, who pointed gradually until we all knew where to go next. (Phoebe had come through with little problem.)
The elevator no sooner appeared than we found ourselves lifted from this floor and on to the chapel. When the chapel appeared before us we saw many pews and undiscerning personages, whose foolishness and fake smiles defy all description, sitting around us reading scriptures and praying. I spake unto Barnabus, calling him by name and said, pointing to a passage in the Bible— “We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?”
My object in going to read from the Bible was to find a passage which would make Barnabus laugh, that I might continue to “mock that which was sacred.” No sooner, therefore, did we get possession of ourselves, so as to not laugh, that we waited in the chapel which had many pews and quiet organ music, and we waited, and we waited (for at this time it had not really entered into our minds that this was going to be very boring)—and finally we were ushered into the endowment session.
We were seated on the second row in white seats, for they were all white; and the personage who sat us said nothing but tried to look holy in our sight; and those entering were all appearing holy; so we too “drew near to holiness with our appearance, but our hearts were mocking these assholes, for they act as special, the people of God, having secret ceremonies, but they deny any form of rational thought thereof.”
The personage again looked over us in a very discerning manor; and many looks did he give unto those assembled, which I cannot write at this time. When he finished, finding no one unworthy, all deserving of heaven (even us!), the light departed; I had no care in the world being full of wine; but soon recovering in some degree, as the movie began. And as I leaned back in my chair, the ominous temple voice bellowed his portentous twaddle. He began, “Brethren and sisters, we welcome you to the temple, and hope you will find joy in serving in the house of the Lord this day . . .” He eventually pronounced to us, “If you proceed and receive your full endowment, you will be required to take upon yourselves sacred obligations, the violation of which will bring upon you the judgment of God; for God will not be mocked.” It seemed as though I would burst out laughing, at a very early period in the ceremony, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of this session; else why should the powers of laughter and wine combine against me? Why the absurdness and hilarity that arose against me, almost in the beginning?
Some few moments after I heard this pronouncement, I happened to gain control by managing to bite my lip, which was very sore by the end of the endowment; and from then on I sat almost quietly through the most boring film ever made; I took occasion to shout “Oh, my” in my head, after the listing by Jehovah of lions, and tigers, and bears. I was greatly surprised that the alcohol began to wear off; I felt my boredom not only slightly as before, but with great weight, hearing everything repeated a million times; there was no such thing as saying something once and getting on with it in this film; for all things must be hammered into the heads of the sheep, and they will like it because they are told to like it.
I soon grew tired of Elohim who was a big white windbag with a great deal to say to Jehovah in his marble house which he went about with no shoes in his glowing white robe (and the why the hell didn’t he have any furniture? If I lived in a house like that I’d put a bullet in my head after 3 weeks), and he was the cause of many stupid words, which continued to increase; and though he was a windbag, only Jehovah attempted to outdo him by repeating everything Elohim said verbatim, his brain in the after life compacted such as to make him a parrot of mindless repetition , yet Mormon men of high standing would take notice sufficient to memorize this banal, repetitious mind-fuck and create an entire culture of idiot parrots; and this is common among all good Mormons all united to do and say as they’re told.
It caused me serious reflection then, and often has since, how very strange it was that holy clothing, of a small enough size to fit into a little packet, should be able to look so stupid and baker-like, yet not one pastry could be found among the lot of us, because frankly I was getting hungry. But strange or not, so it was, and it was the cause of great sorrow to myself.
However, it was finally time to go through the veil, after some old guy prayed in the prayer circle so that no one could hear him well; those in the circle mumbled their repetitive replies, unsure what they were repeating. I managed not to laugh. We did not tarry long in the Celestial Room. I have thought since, that I felt much like Cheech and Chong , when they did too much weed, and couldn’t stop laughing, but in another way it’s just plain sad to see them all lost in this nonsense; but there are but few Mormons who ever realize this; some might say we were dishonest, others might say we were mad, and that we ridiculed and reviled the Mormons. While all this may be true we had good reason to go. We had heard a myth of angelic protection, we knew we had, and all the fear and stupid stories under heaven could not keep us from proving it false; and though they may scare us with stories of God’s punishment, yet we know, and will know to our last laugh, that we have debunked this myth and proven that the temples are not protected by God (at least not an omnipotent one), and all the world could not make us ever go back to that stupid, boring, place ever again.
A couple had some sort of premarital sexual encounter and she convinced him that she had conceived twins. They had a civil marriage and eventually she was baptized and they did all the interviews to get married in the temple.
They got sealed in the temple. Later it was discovered that the woman was actually a man.
Odd as it sounds, apparently the husband was so completely naive (or stupid) that he had no clue that his intended was not a woman.
This story is common knowledge in Utah and was reported throughout the 'respectable' press.
Mormons shake their head in disbelief at how someone (the 'woman') could do something like that but get a glazed look on their faces when I ask how not only the husband could be fooled, but the missionaries, the zone leaders who interviewed for baptism, the bishop, the stake president who interviewed for the temple recommend and the person who performed the marriage ceremony.
I find it hilarious that the mormon church has, in fact, performed at least one same sex wedding ceremony!
I wonder if people realise just how easy it is to assume the role of a True-Believing Mormon? Mormonism is one of my pet intellectual masturbation projects, so to speak, and I enjoy hearing one's views on the subject.
One of my former co-workers was a TBM with valid Recommend, and during one of our conversations he said, "You know, the Washington Temple is such a beautiful and holy place." I responded, much to my chagrin, with "Yes. The Celestial Room is amazing there."
He looked at me funny, and I knew I was in trouble, but I decided to be completely forthright with him.
He asked, "So, you visited the Temple before it was dedicated?" "Well, not exactly. I've actually been through the Endowment. Still have the Garments and the clothes at home."
He must have stared at me for 10 minutes in shock. "How did you do that?" he asked in a very subdued voice. "It wasn't too difficult," I replied. "All I did was borrow a Temple Recommend from an associate, and since I knew pretty much what to expect, I made it through with no questions asked."
"Didn't anyone detect that you were unworthy to be in the Lord's House?" "No, not that I'm aware of. Some of the old ladies greeted me, and told me that I should come back to the Temple as often as I can. I told them that I had every intention of doing so."
The co-worker was silent again for a moment, and then said, "You know, you've just undercut everything I believe in." I didn't mean to destroy his testimony, but there were no powerful angels or sentinels guarding the Temple -- not while I was there anyway.
Maybe they needed a Celestial Chicory break or something. Which brings up an interesting question: Do translated beings need to visit the potty? The most I saw were a bunch of tottering old people in white polyester clothing. Kind of like the spring formal at a nursing home.
INTRODUCTORY ANNOUNCEMENT: Before beginning the Endowment service, we present
the following statement from the First Presidency.
FIRST PRESIDENCY'S STATEMENT: Since the temple Endowment was first administered in this dispensation, minor changes have been made from time to time by the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, acting unitedly in their capacity as Prophets, Seers and Revelators.
After an exacting and extensive review, and following solemn prayer on many occasions in the Upper Room of the Salt Lake Temple, modifications in the Endowment ceremony have been recently made by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve. Those of you who are familiar with the ceremony will recognize these changes which do not affect the substance of the teachings of the Endowment, nor the covenants associated therewith.
As with the other aspects of the Endowment, you are under solemn obligation not to discuss these sacred matters outside of the temple.
May you be blessed of the Lord in the selfless service which you give in His holy house. Sincerely, the First Presidency.
For a complete transcript comparing the Pre and Post 1990 endowment click here: The Official Mormon Temple Endowment
I was converted as an adult (in my 40's and stayed in the church for 6 yrs.) and went to the Mesa Temple for the first time. I had heard all these stories about how "spiritual" the experience was, visitation of spirits of dead relatives and all the other well known morg folklore. Upon entering the endowment room in all that get-up and just being COMPLETELY freaked out at the craziness of it all, I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone!
In the beginning where they ask if anyone wants to leave, I came SO close to running out of there screaming, but ultimately felt like a trapped rabbit, unable to move, trapped by fear and curiosity at the same time. I wonder what would happen if anyone ever actually got up and left?? I was trying my best to get in the "right" spiritual frame of mind, but the only feelings/thoughts I had were how ridiculous all of us looked, especially those old men in those damned baker's hats. I swear, I don't think there was a man there under the age of 80 - everyone of them looked like he had one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel...
Well, somehow I made it through the basic ceremony without falling asleep TOO many times, hoping people couldn't hear my stomach grumbling or the occasional fart that I hoped was muffled by all those clothes..(oh, excuse ME, I know ladies aren't supposed to fart, but we DO!)
THEN came the prayer circle. Being my first time there, I was invited to participate in the circle. There I was, up there, trying to put my elbow on this man's shoulder, which was impossible since I'm 5'3" and this man was at least 6'5" or more. My right arm feel asleep within a minute or two and then the stupid veil thing fell off my head and wound up sort of around my waist and half dragging on the floor.
I'm a person who finds humor in the most unlikely things in life and who always laughs at the WRONG time/place and this was no exception. The absolute absurdity/craziness of the whole thing just hit me all at once and I got tickled in a BIG way...
Once I began laughing, I knew I couldn't stop. I tried my best to camouflage my laughter by coughing and pretending I was choking. So, here I am, a well-educated, highly intelligent, supposedly rational woman, taking part in this highly suspect ritual, arm completely asleep, and with all these ridiculous veils falling down and dragging all over the place... Oh, God, I thought I was going to DIE until I could get my giggles, coughing, and choking under control... I just knew they were going to kick my ass out of there.
Well, somehow I made it through and while sitting in the celestial room "pondering" the mysterious nature of the universe, trying to squelch a few more farts and STILL waiting for the special spiritual experience to overtake me (which NEVER did, by the way), the first major doubts about this so-called religion began to surface.
I thought to myself, WHAT in the HELL am I doing here, taking part in this satanic-like ceremony, dressed up like a complete idiot, following all the others like a bunch of damned sheep, with NO ONE having the courage to jump up and shout "This is a bunch of CRAP and I'm getting the holy hell out of here!!!"
The whole experience reminded of the story of the emperor's clothes, where, even though the emperor is completely naked, everyone has to pretend he is clothed. So it is in the temple - the whole thing is a COMPLETE rip-off of Masonic rituals, with heavy satanic undertones, every bit of it ridiculous, but yet the people there want/have to believe in the sanctity of it for their own sanity and supposed salvation. Unbelievable...
After that experience, my feelings about the church began souring very quickly and not too long after that I began doing serious research with the help of the famed/wonderful Tanners and some other good folks I came across and after "seeing" the light, left the church shortly thereafter...
But, that temple experience still sticks with me, seeing first hand how a bunch of supposedly rational people can be SO completely hoodwinked into doing ANYTHING the "brethren" tell them to do. God, am I glad I'm just a normal person again... Whew...
07/17/2001 - anon
Recently the church has changed its grooming standards for temple workers. Beards are no longer allowed. I find this particularly hypocritical since Brigham Young was wearing a beard when he recieved "the revelation" of exactly what the temple ceremony entailed. Also no extreme hair styles are allowed. What is more extreme than bald?
06/05/2001 - anon
I went to the SLC temple to do baptisms for the dead, no more than three years ago . . . it's odd. The baptismal routine went boy girl boy girl . . . I wonder why they stopped that in Sydney? I also don't remember anyone asking whether any of us were menstruating (I do trust you, that sounds exactly like some of the OTHER crap that was pulled there), but I do remember that my period stopped two days into it, the day I went to the temple, and right after I got home, it started again. My testimony was strengthened, it was God's intervention!!! In the later months, I found out that it was just the way my cycle works. :)
10. The sectarian minister returns, played by Gordon Hinckley.
9. High quality theater surround sound that actually brings the garden to us.
8. Adam and Eve shown multiplying and replenishing the earth, to the Primary tune "Do As I'm Doing".
7. Someone actually declines to receive their full endowment and backs out in the beginning.
6. Lucifer played by Boyd Packer.
5. Narrator's line changed to "Brethren, who are actually still awake, close your eyes as if you were asleep".
4. Patron falls to the floor and violently pretends to be possessed by Satan.
3. Patron's new name tattooed on his ass, to always remember it.
2. Beer vendors walking the aisles.
1. Eve played by a Playboy bunny, without the annoying obstructive vegetation.
- 01/04/2001 - Beli
12/27/2000 - GM
I know a current bishop who submitted all the names of those who died/drowned on the Titanic as many of them would not have their posterity to do their work for them. He followed up by doing the work also. He was such a Titanic fanatic that he ands his wife went down to Mexico to work as extras on the set for the movies. Wow, what a Saviour he is!
12/27/2000 - GM
I know a current bishop who submitted all the names of those who died/drowned on the Titanic as many of them would not have their posterity to do their work for them. He followed up by doing the work also. He was such a Titanic fanatic that he ands his wife went down to Mexico to work as extras on the set for the movies. Wow, what a Saviour he is!
I walked in and was greeted by a lovely sister LDS missionary. And I do mean lovely, with long brunette hair, tall, great figure and pretty face. This was a definate distraction for my true mission in going there. I tried to fantasize about how she would look with just garments on.(grin).
She showed me a massive wall display showing how Joseph Smith, George Bush, Gerald Ford, Emma Smith, and about six other prominent people are all related through a common ancestor that sailed to America on the Mayflower. For some reason they didn't have displayed who was related to horse thieves and traitors.
Sister Smith, (no kidding, that was her name) then showed me a huge oak looking tree trunk two stories high. She proudly said that the artist constructed the massive piece of work by taking an imprint of of a Rhino pick up truck bed liner for the bark and exterior of the tree trunk and then duplicating it seven times. (not making this up).
Sister Smith offered to let me push the computer screen and video display and watch several of the LDS Public Service announcements or those Home Front series. I pased on that realizing it was a gimick to get you feeling warm and fuzzy for the next display. '
There was also a children's area where they could press buttons and get answers to their questions. I passed on that too.
Then it was down stairs to another huge mural with even more pictures of pedigrees to a famous people with one picture frame being a mirror with the clever caption - "This could be you!". (I said to myself, no way in hell!)
Next Sister Smith showed me the four terminals that people can link to Church HQ to look up their genealogy. I asked her if knew that Hitler had been baptized. She had a blank look on her face but lighted right up when said, "Hey, let's look it up on the computer."
I said sure and sure enough as I typed in the name Adolf Hitler up popped Brother Adolf's church records. He was baptized in the London England temple in 1994 and sealed to Eva Brahn (sp) about a year later. It diplayed his endowment date, sealed to parents date as well.
This didn't even register on Sister Smith's face as she said that we belief all people will have the chance to accept the temple ordinances. When I informed her that the Jewish people were outraged when they found out that Mormons were baptising holocaust victims for the dead, she still had no reaction except the canned statements.
When I asked her if she was related to Joseph Smith, she said no. I said well maybe you are related to one of his other wives. She looked perplexed as I explained that Joseph Smith had many other wives besides Emma.
She said that if I would allow some missionaries to come over to my house that they could explain and answer all of my questions such as how a small group of people like the Mormons can ever baptize over a 100 billion humans that have lived on the earth and how is it exactly that Hitler will be presented the chance to accept or decline his temple work.
I had a great time and we shook hands as I left with these thoughts in my head.
1. Mormon missionaries sure come across as mobot cultish types and probably scare more people away than they attract.
2. Are there any male missionaries at temple square or other church visitor sites in Utah. They all seem to be sisters now.
3. Thank god my daughter is not going on a mission.
4. The morg puts millions into their geneaology programs without much return of converts.
5. The blatant ploy to appeal to family feelings as a hook into the eventual sales speel of being baptized is repulsive. Classic bait and switch tactic.
6. Missionaries are almost totally clueless about the real morg and discussing anything of substance is usually a total waste of time.
When I got home I looked up the morgs family history web site: Family History Search and sure enough brother Adolf is listed but this time without any temple work data. I surmise that the family history center in Park City serves a dual purpose, a missionary trap and also a resource for LDS members to do genealogy work after hours.
So there you have it, public access to a terminal that proves Adolf was baptized, ordained, endowed and seal to Miss Braun and his parents.
OK everybody, down to the bunker for Family Home Evening! On the double!! - 11/21/2000 - cricket
11/22/2000 Steve P
I always knew the church was pragmatic. They were called to task for baptizing Jews, so they started doing the Nazis. Someone should warn the Jews, though, that the Nazis are going to be WAY ahead of them in their eternal progression.
By the way, can anyone say definitively who is more racist, Jews or Nazis? The Nazis brought us the Holocaust, but the Jews brought us the Bible. And look at what's going on in Israel even today. "You can't teach a sneech," to quote that great sage, Dr. Seuss.
After viewing the above "sure sign of the nail",I find it ironic that the LDS Church is anti-gay? - 10/14/2000 - anon
Current demographic studies indicate that the total number of humans who have ever been born on the earth approximate 115 billion. Historians have estimated that less than 6% of all humanity have kept written records and less than half of those kept any kind of geneological records. Simply put, even if we did all the temple work for the dead that could possibly be done, it would amount to less than 3% of the human family. That is if we did all that is possible to do and then how many of those dead humans would accept the work done for them? Aren't there better things to do with the money and time that is expended on this futile work for the dead? - 09/29/2000 - anon
09/16/2000 - Ron
I just got back from Burning Man. It was a fabulous experience where I learned much more about the evils of control, and how we have created much of our own problems. I saw this especially in the area of sexuality as there is much open nudity and sexuality present there. Me and my brother took our Temple Robes and wore them there. Only 5 people recognized them. 4 of the 5 were very supportive. One gal came up and gave us the "special" handshake. There was one young guy my brother spoke with who was offended. He obviously didn't belong at Burning Man.
After a few weeks his grief deepened into a severe depression. In complete despair he left his children with someone and traveled many miles to the temple for a weekend of prayer and fasting. After several sessions the floodgates opened and he wept uncontrollably in the celestial room while the elderly matrons tried to comfort him.
Later an elderly official, a member of the temple presidency invited him into his office for a blessing. He introduced my friend to the young woman who would become his second wife. She was a frequent visitor known by many who came to pray for help in finding a righteous husband. She was nice and pleasant, a returned missionary and a college graduate, but not very attractive physically. The kind of woman who could pull a handcart across the mountains but was in no danger of appearing in a playboy publication.
The temple official gave first one, then the other, a blessing. He blessed them to fall in love and get married to each other. Then he gently challenged them to be obedient to the promptings of the Spirit. They felt the Spirit very strongly that day.
They left the temple together. Their courtship consisted of lunch at Wendy's and a long walk in the park that afternoon. They discussed marriage and their situations respectively and became engaged by the end of the day. They attended church the next morning and departed for the long trip back home in opposite directions. He did not feel a lifting of the grief but he expected to shortly if he proved faithful and obedient to the Spirit.
The next few weeks flew by like a daze and they were back at the temple in less than a month. To be married. She probably got pregnant on their honeymoon.
His family was shocked and they did not like her. He was not even close to being over his grief and now added on top of it, he felt incredibly guilty. Her pregnancy did not go easily and now she has to take care of those two little orphan children from hell who hate her and are getting worse by the day. To top it all off the military transfered him to a new area.
I talked to my Elder's Q. President and he wasn't "aware of the situation." He told me that he had prayed about it and he felt that this couple must have committed some horrendous Sin to be this messed up. He speculated that they probably had sex before getting to the temple. "Yes, that would explain everything," he told me. Try and get them to confess if you can, he admonished me.
The more I mulled over this impossible situation, the more angry I became. Bullshit! I thought. Later than night I was sitting in the church parking lot alone thinking about what could I do for them. Suddenly it came to me. I could drive straight through to the temple. I'd be there by about 10:00 the next morning. And then I could find that temple president or whoever he was. And then I could KICK HIM SQUARE IN THE ASS!
On Sunday evenings, northern Utah County teens descend in droves on the Mount Timpanogos Temple, which is closed on Sundays, to sing hymns with friends and peers on the lush grounds. And if singing were all they did there, it probably would be fine with church leaders. But the high jinks and lowbrow behavior of a sizeable minority has Young Mormons sing Sunday evening at the Mount Timpanagos Temple struck a sour note with the members of the temple presidency, who have informed Mormon bishops and stake presidents in the area that the informal Sunday night socials are getting out of hand.
Indeed, the temple at 792 N. 900 East in American Fork has become quite a hangout for high-school age youths, prospective church missionaries and betrothed couples. The area around the temple was rollicking several Sundays ago with bumper-to-bumper traffic. Cars full of teens leaning out windows and exchanging banter with pedestrians did laps around the place of worship.
On the temple grounds, a few couples necked and one couple sprawled on a blanket, groping each other. On the lawn outside the south fence, a woman walking a large dog paused to allow her pet to defecate. An impromptu game of tag erupted nearby as a handful of boisterous teens chased each other through the parking lot, careening off parked cars and knocking over a boy on his bicycle.
A man cruising by periodically in a temple security truck appeared to have little deterrent effect. Neither did the hymns sung by several more respectful groups on the west lawn.
Temple-grounds decorum is better than that on most Sundays, however. The gathering usually begins around dusk. As the sun dips below the the west Oquirrh Mountains, a steady stream of teens can be seen meandering from the temple parking lot to the west lawn to socialize, cuddle or organize into small circles for some a cappella fun.
"We call them the Cumorah Hill Singers," quips Kira Cluff, a California visitor commenting on the circle at the Aug. 6 temple singfest. Actually, none of the groups has a moniker. Spontaneity, not organization, characterizes the song circles. But they all operate pretty much the same way. Someone usually opens with prayer, after which group members sing hymns out of the green Mormon hymnal.
"The Spirit of God Like a Fire is Burning," "Lead Kindly Light," and "I Need Thee Every Hour" are popular staples for temple singers. Sometimes, they take a breather to share in the excitement of group members who have received mission calls. After hearty handshakes and group hugs, tradition calls for members to launch into a spirited rendition of "Called to Serve." Singers cap off the evening with prayer.
"It's a celestial moment," American Fork resident Heidi Kirschbaum, 19, says of the temple songsters. "I think a lot of young people come here to the temple because they know Daddy [Heavenly Father] is watching."
Certainly there are watchers about. Not all of them heavenly, though. And some of them are not thrilled about what they are seeing on Sundays when the temple grounds closely resemble the old Frankie Avalon/Annette Funicello movie "Beach Blanket Bingo."
Couples lying about the grounds necking are a common sight. So are twosomes retreating to their cars or pickup trucks to pitch their woo. Others eschew romance for tomfoolery: giving each other piggyback rides, vaulting temple fences or pestering those there for quiet walks or reflection.
While teens engaging in breaches of temple decorum are in the minority, there are enough to warrant concern from the temple presidency. LDS Church spokesman Dale Bills acknowledged the misbehavior at some singfests has not gone unnoticed. "There has been some contact with local priesthood leaders to encourage appropriate behavior," Bills said.
Many youths at the temple on Sunday admit they have been advised by their church leaders to stay home. Pleasant Grove teen Nanette Labadie said her stake president recently told the youths to stay way because too many people were gathering at the temple for purely social reasons. "But he didn't tell us we couldn't come," she said.
Like Labadie, many others at the temple Sunday find the illuminated and immaculate grounds and chance to sing and mingle with friends hard to resist. Pleasant Grove teen Erin Ballard said she comes to the temple nearly every night. Kara Cruz, also of Pleasant Grove, likes visiting during daylight hours to watch newly married couples "because they look really cute and so happy." "I can't wait until it's my turn," she said.
Temples are considered by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be sacred places where the faithful can congregate to practice the faith's most sacred rites. But temple singing and the notion of the edifice as a teen hangout apparently are a northern Utah County phenomenon. No one is sure when the practice originated or why teens prefer the Mount Timpanogos Temple.
Angus Belliston, second counselor in the Provo Temple presidency, said small groups from the nearby Missionary Training Center might meet outside that temple's gates to sing hymns on occasion. But he does not think it is a regular practice or attracts anywhere near the number of singers as Timpanogos. He said most visitors at the Provo Temple are well-behaved, though some youths like to roll down the sloping grounds.
One possible explanation for the phenomenon -- at least the temple-singing aspect of it -- is that it is an outgrowth of tunnel singing at Brigham Young University. On Sunday evenings during the fall and winter, BYU students gather in a tunnel where two walkways converge near the Marriott Center to sing hymns. Mark Killingbeck, a former resident assistant at a student dorm on campus, is credited with starting tunnel singing in 1992. It has been a campus tradition ever since. "I don't think they have a leader or they are sponsored by anyone," BYU spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said. "They just get together and sing."
Church policy for temple etiquette is simple. Bills said visitors are expected to act respectably, "in keeping with the dignity of these sacred buildings." But church policy does not address temple singing. Most at church headquarters are unfamiliar with the practice, although the happenings at the Timpanogos Temple did rate a brief mention in the April 1999 edition of The New Era, the official church magazine for youth.
"When I first read through the Book of Mormon, I fasted and prayed to know if it was true," Mormon seminary student John Fisher is quoted as saying in the article. "I was singing at the Mount Timpanogos Temple. During 'I Need Thee Every Hour,' I looked up at the temple, and I got my answer right there. The temple just seemed to be glowing about three times brighter. I just knew."
07/25/2000 - Quotes from celestial pillow talk magazine
Now is the day of my power, I reign from property line to property line. I barbecue with only a green apron, in full view of my neighbors. There are none I dare not molest nor make afraid. My apron hides, my power and priesthoods rather well, I'd say.
My neighbors wife often protests..."is there no other way?" I assure there is.."no other way."
And she confides that it must be so.
She has often threatened to call the police. I ask by what authority? She only raises her hand and murmers some endless chatter.
One day while taking a shower, I found she had entered my home and was watching intently.
I stuck forth my hand and said what is that? She said "your hand!"
I said that is correct..has it a name and she said, "your hand?"
I grasp her hand and pulled her through the curtain. I said what is this? She just looked flabergasted, but has entered into the joy of my tub many times since then.
When I hear three distinct taps on the door I know she is back for further light and knowledge.
07/21/2000 - Gladiator
I design commercial satellites in LA. I work in a clean room environment from time to time. We wear the same type of hair covers which are used in the temple. Ours are light blue and then we wear white static free coats. Once in awhile I think of the temple when I'm in the high bay here at work. Today I saw a new style of hair cover which looked pretty cool. It looked like a sailors hat with venting on the top. I really want one! It was at that point that I suddenly got caught up in the spirit and my mind was open as to why they made us wear those stupid looking hair covers in the temple. They Didn't want us to get shit in our hair as they were feeding it to our brains..... Ask and it shall be given to you. knock and it shall be open unto you. The truth shall set you free.
The Mormon TBM (True Believing Mormon) mindset expects respect and consideration for its religious and social peculiarities. TBMs see no reason to accord others the same consideration they demand for themselves. This is doubly true in how they attempt to reactivate Exmos using blatantly relentless, patronizing tactics.
It's time for Exmos to unite and declare freedom from the insulting clutches of TBM imperialism! Any affront inflicted on an Exmo should now be used with equanimity to stop abuse by TBMs!
Thus, I propose a program for baptizing the TBM Brain Dead. The procedure is similar to the mormon practice of baptizing young teenagers in secret temple ceremonies for long dead persons who would turn over in their graves if they knew. Technically TBMs are still "alive" but their "brain dead" status qualifies them for apostate baptism. Proxy baptism for a living victim may seem silly but makes more sense than baptizing for the dead who have no way to defend themselves. It also eliminates the need for time-consuming genealogy.
To initiate this program, I asked my wife, Cheryl, to baptize me in our bathtub to transform Gordon Hinkley from a brain dead cultist into an enlightened apostate. I have never been a Mormon and she was appalled that a Nevermo should take an honor due to an Exmo. She was right. I also left the other big guys (Joseph Smith and Brigham Young) for ex-Mormons, as well. I finally settled for baptizing myself in the shower for an abusive, local, brain-dead bishop. However, I don't bathe often enough to make a dent in the TBM population so I will need help from every Lampoon reader.
To start the program I established some guidelines but because they are not divine you may feel free to offer your procedural ideas as well. As opposed to the morg (LDS Church), these procedures are available to one and all. If the Tanners publish them I hereby agree not to sue.
1. Baptism for the TBM Brain Dead can occur anywhere water is available. This includes, but is not limited to, bathtubs, pools, showers, swimmin' holes, oceans, lakes (Salt or fresh water) and hot tubs.
2. Ask yourself questions of your own choosing to obtain a Brain Dead Baptismal Recommend. If you answer your own questions honestly, proceed to the water.
3. Total emersion is not necessary. It ruins perfectly good hairdos.
4. Jot down the names of those TBMs for whom you are baptized. Eventually we will have a repository of files in a Rocky Mountain granite cave near a casino in Reno, Nevada For now you are on your own.
5. More than one person may be baptized simultaneously. Due to the enormous numbers of TBMs and the damage they are doing time is of the essence. For example, if you bathe with another person you both may baptize from the shared water. The urgency to baptize TBMs into apostasy allows us to use these extreme procedures in the same way early TBM measures like polygamy were necessary to utilize excess women (wasn't that the TBM excuse?).
6. In the event you are drunk and spill your guts about these procedures it is not necessary to blood atone yourself by slitting your throat.
If Baptizing for The Brain Dead catches on it may be added as an event in the Las Vegas hotel swimming pool at X2001 An Exmo Space Odyssey. If next year's apostate convention is held in the Luxor Hotel it's possible we could bring down some of their Egyptian props to the pool -- perhaps a golden bull.
I support this project. I am undaunted by the fact that this program is likely to net close to zero healings of TBM brain dead. After all, how many conversions have mormons accrued from actual dead people?
As a young teen I participated in Logan and SLC temple baptisms for the dead rites. I see no more harm in it than their other secret rituals. We enjoyed two fun days hooting and grab assing to and from the temples and eating picnics in the park. Still living TBMs may profit from the process if they hear about it and attempt to start thinking. But the dead? I don't think so!
07/22/2000 - Gail
Jerry the Aspoustate rocks! Lesson: Never ever mess with a CPA! :)
07/15/2000 - gladiator
The 10 things I hated about the temple.
10. White buildings
9. White clothes
8. Not being able to talk
7. Not being able to sleep
6. Having to watch a very bad movie over and over again
5. Liking the bad guy in the movie more than the good guys
4. Hoping that it will get better
3. Thinking I'm an idiot when it didn't get better
2. Looking at others in the temple and thinking they knew something that I didn't know
1. But the thing I hated most of all was not being able to talk about it at all
07/10/2000 - layhna
In the temple movies, I thought Satan was the sexy one. What a cutie. i've always thought Satan was sexy. I was told that I should be looking for someone who is Christ-like, but he's so boring! Satan, on the other hand, is exciting and so wonderfully Evil.
06/15/2000 - anon
I had a temple assignment during my days at BYU. I was a young RM and I had an assignment to do washings and annointings in the Provo Temple. When I went through the last part where they "clothe you in the garment of the holy preisthood" I realized that the officiator was "checking out my package"......if you will. I noticed that he managed to brush his hand across my privates every time he helped me with the garments. Finally I told him that he was gonna give me a boner if he kept doing it. The next time through he was gone and another guy was there.
There was a time, after serving as bishop for three years, that I was called to what was in my opinion that worst calling in the whole world, being high priest group leader. I guess that position is ok for someone older, but give me a break, I was only 32 when I was called to be the HP leader. Well, of course we had responsibility to make certain everyone went to the temple.
I was just glad that one of my assistants was a 70 yo guy from the Wyoming oil fields who loved to keep everyone in line. He had responsibility for getting people to the temple. Well, there was this one man, probably in his high 70s at the time, who met your comment. Literally, he sat their asleep, even snoring, but never missed a standing up request. He would bow his head, say yes, and go back to sleep. It used to make me smile thinking that those poor souls in heaven from whom he was doing the temple work did not get to fully participate since their vicarious temple worker was sleeping.
For God's sake, the line the leaders had us believe back then.
06/13/2000 - Deanna
Ya know.... they dissed the five points of fellowship based on complaints from women... I wonder if they will ever update the new names, based on people's comments. Perhaps in 20 years, the new name of the day will be names like Julia, (Roberts) Brad, (Pitt) and Gordon. (gross!)
Maybe they'll even get serious about making the temple palatable by doing focus studies..... Then we'll have innovations like:
Popcorn - please chew with your mouth closed! Electronic sign boards - to help you remember the longs parts like "Healthinthenavelmarrowinthebones,strengthintheloinsandinthesinews powerinthepriesthoodbeuponmeanduponmyposteritythroughall generationsoftimeandthroughoutalleternity."
A five minute break - for all those going through for their own endowment, right after entering the session. Laughing at the other patrons (and their baker's hats) encouraged! Get it out of your system! Deanna
04/04/2000 - anon
I was twelve years old and about to be baptized for the dead in the Salt Lake Temple. I recall following my Deacons Quorum through the maze of tunnels beneath the temple in drafty baptism clothes and bare feet, my childhood friend and I, had fallen behind. Rounding a corner we came to an empty corridor intersection, with no quorum in sight and several interesting options to chose from. The circular marble stairs looked the most interesting by far. Of course we had been thoroughly educated in the sacredness of the temple and repeatedly warned to stay together and keep quiet.
It was expected that awe and fear would keep us from wandering off. My friend suggested we try the stairs. He had a gift for consistently making poor decisions. We hurried up the stairs, round and round trying to catch up with our group. After passing up the third floor, the suspicion that we had gone the wrong way had become certain, but remained unspoken by either of us. The mystery of the temple and the lure of the unknown, was much too compelling for us to entertain the notion of turning back.
Soon we heard voices. Suspecting that we were treading where angles feared...and half expecting to see one, we slowed our approach and creep up so just our eyes cleared the top step. What we observed, was a group of old men, in dark suits, involved in conversation. One grey headed gentleman was idly looking around, until his eyes wandered and locked with mine.
He stared disbelieving for a moment...we broke and ran down those cold steps as fast as we could.
When we hit the bottom floor, our distraught advisor was looking for us. Taking us by the short hairs of our heads he marched us off, while speculating that "forty proxy baptisms was probably not enough to wash away the sins of what ever it was, we had been up to."
The group of men we saw were probably just temple workers. But I enjoy thinking it might have been the GA's in session.
03/05/2000 - anon
The kid's and I spent a great day at Disneyland yesterday. We really enjoy the Disney first ward and our membership therein. Each week we show our faithfulness by showing our sacred season passes to the watchers at the gate. We don our special clothing (mickey mouse hat) and are amazed by the ordinances of standing in line, shaking hands with characters and playing duck duck goose with the seven dwarves. The symbolism is amazing and we always leave the same way we entered...through the sacred tunnel.
08/12/2000 - anon
That Patriarchal Grip would ALSO go good in the CASTRO, wouldnt it?
05/26/2000 - anon
Beware of the "Joe" Buzzer
02/16/2000 - anon
Freddie, one of my fellow deacons, had an unhealthy obsession with keys. Freddie collected house keys to get into peoples houses to get more keys to get into other places to get even more keys. He never took anything else except keys and he had copied thousands of them.
He got a key to a certain broom closet where the church custodian kept his secret beer stash. He got a key to the Bishop's office and spent most of one night tearing it apart, searching for the real Keys to the Priesthood. He had a young crisis of faith when he couldn't find them. I told him that the real Keys to the Priesthood were probably kept in Salt Lake in a secret vault, with the gold plates.
Freddie's greatest achievement was the acquisition of a key to the old Mormon temple in our small town. Because I was about the only kid who didn't tease wierd little Freddie, he invited me along to explore it. The first attempt we got over the fence and the front door open before Freddie chickened out. The second attempt we made it into the building a few feet and I left a dead snake on a table for an experiment before running out as if the place was on fire.
But nothing happened and the urge to go further into the most secret rooms beckoned us to come back. I figured we needed a couple of spunky girls along to give us courage. The third attempt four of us sneeked into the spooky old temple without a glitch. We wandered the dark sacred halls with flashlights and in truth it was rather anti-climatic. Until we explored the baptistry.
One of the girls made the most unbelieveable and outrageous suggestion. I had never concieved of doing anything so taunting and frightening. Would we dare? Would God strike us all dead immediately? Freddie started to whimper. But the two girls and I got undressed as fast as we could and we went skinny dipping in the temple baptism font together.
Freddie ran from the temple and never spoke to me again. Both girls got pregnant right after and had abortions. Although they had other boyfriends and not the best reputations, they both swore to me that it couldn't have been any other time except that night in the font.
We concluded that we were living proof that the Mormon god was not very powerful, or at least more long suffering than the Mormon church leaders, to allow us to continue living. Less holy things than menstral blood have been floating around in that particular temple baptismal font.
02/09/2000 - anon
Some of the old temples were built before electricity was widely used. Later the wires were carefully hidden but sometimes they had to be run across a hall under a rug. Eventually the wires wore out and began to shock people when they accidently stepped on them. You'd hear about these incredible spiritual experiences the next testimony meeting that originated with faulty wiring.
02/09/2000 - Robert B
Perhaps we should devise an "unsealing" ceremony for ex-Mormons. You know, it might even be a big help for the church to have such a ceremony, being they are concerned about keeping the temples busy. Those temple workers left without enough to do could get busy unsealing us ex-mos by proxy. Maybe they'd be afraid, though, they'd end up unsealing folks as fast as their coworkers are sealing them-- maybe faster.
01/26/2000 - Randy J, Dale Broadhurst---from ARM
01/26/2000 - RLD
I worked in a hospital a few years back and was asked to meet with a man who had been admitted for cutting his own throat. The picture remains vivid in my mind. Because of my Mormon background he was willing to tell me things that he would not tell the doctors. He told me that he had broken a covenant that he had made in the temple and was therefore reaping the consequences. He felt he was destined to be destroyed for his betrayal. I never asked what covenant he had broken as he had made it clear that discussing this would cause more suffering for himself.
I tried to explain to his psychiatrist the meaning of his cutting his own throat. I was "informed" that he was suffering from a psychotic break. It was a huge dilemma because the more I tried to explain to the docs, the more they didn't believe me. The other problem was that I was breaking the same "covenants" by talking about the temple practices. Cults are a tricky, malicious thing ... they cut you off from reality checks and appropriate treatment. The more I tried to explain the Mormon church ... the more my colleagues thought I was crazy. I felt like I was screaming and no one heard me. Obviously they did not listen to him either.
I left that position and moved to another city and had no further contact with him (and his family) until I recieved a call from his wife telling me he had died from an unknown cause. To this day, I am sickened by the horror of this man's suffering and do not know the details of what happened. I know that he believed in the insanity of the temple rituals and that he believed he did not deserve to live.
01/23/2000 - Randy J
The Tanners received a document from an anonymous Mormon. It was a survey request sent from the church to about 3000 temple recommend holders. The survey asked about 50 questions, wanting to know members' opinions about the temple rites, and how they felt about various portions of the ceremony. Allegedly, many women respondents wrote negatively of the 'five points of fellowship' as being too physically intimate with strange males. I can easily see this as being offensive, because I've heard negative comments from Mormon women for years about the FPOF. The most frequent complaint being that the veilworker was old and had breath to match. :-) At any rate, the FPOF is taken straight from Masonic rites, and it was one of the obvious Masonic portions deleted along with the 'blood oaths.'
One of our fellow ex-Mos, Cindy Woodrum, who's about four-foot-ten, tells her hilarious story of going through the veil for the first time, with a veilworker who was about six-foot-five. She didn't come close to acheiving 'breast-to-breast' or 'knee-to-knee' status.
01/20/2000 - Lady DB
My problem with the washing and anointing business was I would scream with laughter because it tickled! They were saying "shhhh shhhhhh" and I'm yukking it up. Then I got embarrassed because each time I came around it for another anointing, it would tickle worse than the last time and I would squeal more. So then I got earnest and started praying to God to make me stop feeling ticklish. And it didn't work. I prayed harder and harder, even made some promises but to no avail, so I made a commitment then and there to never participate in that part of the work for our beloved dead ones ever again. And I didn't ...and I won't!
01/20/2000 - SwedenDC
Earlier this season in the National Football League, several players used the "throat slash" as a way to celebrate scores or other big plays. The NFL banned these as disturbing and violent. I thought that was funny, since thousands of good little Mormon men & women did this daily in the pre-1990 temple ceremony, but the NFL had the sense to recognize it as barbaric.
01/20/2000 - Robert B
The NFL Covenant "I, __________, covenant and promise that I will never reveal the playbook, offensive, or defensive schemes of the _________ to an opposing team. Rather than do so, [appropriate gesture] I would suffer my life to be taken."
01/20/2000 - Deanna
When we get to heaven there will be two lines - one for pre-1990 and one for post-1990... kinda like the grocery story with "9 items or less"..... we're lucky! We'll get to go through the express line!!!!
01/20/2000 - Annie
Well then what about those damn washings and anointings being too intimate with those of the same sex? How do I know those women touching me all over the place aren't closet lesbians? I found that WAY mor offensive and intrusive than the FPOF. Sitting there with a see through sheet covering most of my naked body while some woman slathers oil all over my breasts and genitals? Can you say SEXUAL?
And then you sit in the garden room, pretending you are naked and just covered by a fig leaf. Boy, whoever wrote all that (JS and BY, I believe) obviously were acting out some fantasies there. Have you ever thought of greeting your spouse or SO some time wearing nothing but the fig leaf apron? I'm sure that would get his attention!!
01/21/2000 - Sue
Intimate positions and baker's hats: I happen to know that many women complained about the intimacy that occured at the veil -- I personally know a woman who was molested "at the veil" by ELOHEIM!!! When she reported it, she OF COURSE was told that she must have been imagining it -- or misinterpreted - yadda, yadda, yadda. My understanding, albeit no way to really verify it -- is that enough complaints were made by the women about the "unwanted" knee to knee, body to body contact, that it was eliminated.
12/16/1999 - Don in Germany
I have always enjoyed the thought of considering the origin of "Pay Lay Ale" thus:
Pay = 10% of your income
Lay = a crass description of the benefits of plural marriage especially as practiced by Joe and Briggy
Ale = A benefit lost to modern Mormons, but readily consumed by early members; just remember Brigham's brewery or Joe's "drank a glass of beer at Moesers" besides his bar with Porter Rockwell as barkeep.
12/12/1999 - anon
Let me see now, Someone(probably wearing garments) had a heart attack in a temple. What happened to sacred protections in what should be the most sacredly-protected place on earth. Protected, at the very least, from the curious eyes of those (probably) gentile firefighters. Apparently the Mormon God works in even more mysterious ways than I could fathom. Or was he just on vacation that day?
12/06/1999 - A. Grant
There is no open prohibition against Mormons becoming Masons except one reference in the Church's General Handbook of Instruction. "Members should be discouraged from participating in organizations that mimic Temple ceremonies." Now That is a lot of cheek! Steal something, then accuse the people you stole from of mimicing you!
11/07/1999 - Gordon Mitchell and lds-hist
What I find particularly interesting (and ironic) is that the Tarot may be connected to the same traditions that found their way into the Endowment (gnosticism, hermeticism, the kabbalah, and of course masonry). But of course I can see the apologist reply "the Tarot is simply a corruption of the endowment thus we can dismiss the Tarot and face cards as they detract from the 'true' endowment."
In the BOTA version of the Tarot Key, "The Magician," the right had is raised to the square, while the left hand is extended, the index finger pointing to the table, with its four ritual implements. These implements represent -- among other things-- the Divine Name, or Tetragrammaton. One of these implements is the CUP. One Key that he has NOT mentioned is the Emperor, which in the BOTA deck is very significant. Here, the Emperor sits upon a cubic stone. His legs at right angles. His left arm is brought to the SQUARE, and in his CUPPED left hand is a sphere. His right arm is also squared, and in his right hand is a sceptre in the form of the Key of the mysteries. The Emperor represents --among other things-- the Ancient of Days.
Perhaps the ordinance at the veil can be sped up by reducing it to a hearty high-five and a chest-bump before entering celestial glory. - 11/03/1999 - Randy J
Hitler's Baptism: Since there is dispute amongst the bretheran we shall settle this the Mormon way! All in favor of sustaining Brother Adolf to membership through the sacred ordinance of baptism for the dead please raise your "hans"! - 10/26/1999 - anon
On what grounds is Hitler's baptism being rescinded? Has (and doesnt this sound ridiculous to be even talking about this?) the true church any knowledge of acts committed after earth year 1993? I kind of F*^$#(! doubt it. My point is to the entire lunacy of the LDS' church baptism for the dead. They baptize this "evil incarnate", and then "rescind" it when the heat gets turned on. One must ask, though, if polygamy has merely been suspended here on earth, why shouldnt we believe that Adolph's plunge has not also been rescinded only temporarily? "What a tangled web we weave, when with false doctrine we deceive" - 10/18/1999 - anon
I'm rather pissed off that the templework (baptism and endowment) for Hitler was done in 1993 in the London temple. Of all places! But then, good luck they haven't got a temple in Jerusalem (yet).
Funny enough, it seems that at no times did the Holy Ghost intervene against any of these actions, how did Borg Purdy state it:"Policy is to remove them as soon as possible. Moreover, in the case of the names in question, Hitler, Eichmann, etc., the temple ordinance work for these individuals has already been nullified."
Reason must have been, because, as Dallin Oaks said: "I know from experience that some seasoned members of the Church 'do not know' when they are receiving a witness of the Spirit ... Perhaps lifelong members of the Church don't recognize the testimony of the Spirit because they have had it so often they take it for granted."
And that in the temple, where the spirit is supposed to be so strong.
One could say all this is just made up, "submitted by die-hard genealogists", all well-intentioned. But then history paints a different picture. It shows the "system" behind the whole thinking and feeling:
We remember president Wilford Woodruff stating during field-marshal ... eh ... general conference, Sep16.1877, that the US founding fathers visited him in spirit at the St. George Temple. They bemoaned that the templework hadn't been done for them yet. Of course that was made up for, the work was done for them (BTW "the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth).
Added to that were another bunch of promis; John Wesley, Columbus, all the presidents of the USA, all? Nay, all except three, "except three; and when their cause is just, somebody will do the work for them." (Journal of Discourses Vol. 19:229) With that logic BTW Hitler's cause has become "just" by now. Oh, one of the three was pres. Buchanan, who "pestered" the church.
What do we learn? Never pursue or "persecute" the church. You are in danger of not having a "just cause." If you want to qualify, kill 6 million Jews and millions of other people through your war activities. I guess when Sadam Hussein and Milosovic die their "work" will be done in a jiffy.
If these bandits are well qualified, how about Satan then? Seriously considering to enter the below form for templework
Applying for: Satan, also known as Belial, Evil One, Beelzebul, Dragon,
Common Enemy, Snake, Devil, Lucifer etc. etc. etc.
Mother: Goddess (well one of the manifold polygamous wives of God without name, maybe a spiritual gentest could help)
Title: Prince of the World
Further brothers and sisters: All of us
Body (prerequisite): Actually none ... in that case templework is not possible ... eh ... necessary.
Halt!: Actually he did have a body most of the time, his brother can testify of that. He "possessed" a body often enough. Would the body of a pig actually pull it off too? There was the case were the "demons" went straight for the pig herd and then ditched. Why actually?
Father: Unknown, (illegitimate)
Mother: Miss Piggy, fits better anyway. If a take a glance at some of those medieval paintings, Satan does have something of a frog too, especially his skin. Now then, could it be that he could be the illegitimate son of Kermit and Miss Piggy? Who knows?
Accepted and approved. - 10/14/1999 - James
A funny about proxy baptism---from ARM
A Mormon wrote:
I know it offends people to think they will be baptized in an LDS temple after they die, but that's just the way it is. I can't stop it, you can't stop it, and no matter what you leave in a last will and testament, it won't stop it.
ExMormon "Petros" wrote:
Fine. I will institute a ritual (inspired by God of course) of antibaptism, by which any baptisms by proxy can be immediately nullified and rendered void. This sacred rite (for which I shall have a special temple constructed from donations) shall be first applied to all Mormons who have died before it is applied to anyone else. Thus, they will be given the opportunity in the afterlife to repent of having followed the false doctrines of Mormonism while alive. Of course, they still have the free will to decline this special benefit if they choose to remain damned.
I will be happy to extend this great blessing to all of your deceased ancestors if you will simply send me their names and birth dates.
(Wait a minute, revelation coming in . . . okay, God says I will not need any names or birthdates in order to perform this sacred work. What a great blessing from the Lord! He's just made my work far easier. Thank you Heavenly Father!)
Consider your ancestors antibaptized by proxy. -
10/12/1999 - Randy J.-
It was during an endowment session last November that I first started to question all of it. It was during the veiling of faces in the "true order of prayer". I despise the so called "true order of prayer". I despise temple work! I find it disgraceful that I spent my whole life trying to be worthy to go to the temple only to be let down considerably! The temple was nothing like I expected it would be when I was growing up! The supreme deity that I believe in would not have a woman shamed and hiding behind a veil! Women are as powerful as men and are as equal as men!
10/05/1999 - Annie
This reminds me of how when I first started going through the temple I couldn't understand the jump arounds in time. First you're in the garden of eden, then you're apparently in somewhere around the 1800's with the preacher and you're just everywhere. I felt like a subplot to A Wrinkle in Time. - 10/05/1999 - Tracy
What happens when a fire alarm goes off in the temple? Does everyone run out of the temple in their bakers hats, veils, and aprons? Do they have to take it all off before they get out? Maybe the temple hands out big sheets with hoods to cover it all. Can you imagine the sight if you were a temple neighbor? LOL! I will be interested to see if anyone can answer this! - 09/22/1999 - Ron and Sarah
Even worse, what about those people getting their nipples and loins washed and greased? Do they run outside and hang out in the parking lot with their "shields" blowing in the wind as they desperately try to keep their "privates" covered? Or, do they run to the dressing room to get dressed, knowing that, if the fire alarm is for real, they could be trapped in a burning building. - 09/26/1999 - Ron Williams
Once while attending the Seattle temple someone had a heart attack during the session, 911 was called and came right into the room while we all sat there with our cute outfits on. The temple was never rededicated to my knowledge, unless done extremly privately. But god! Did I feel stupid when those paramedics came in? They must have thought they were in the middle of a Satanic worship cult. - 09/23/1999 - Annie
This talk about fire alarms and temple desecration has got me remembering my first trip to the LA Temple to do baptisms for the dead. I was 14 and had looked forward to this trip since I was a very young girl. I believed that the temple was like being in heaven since I'd heard or read all the Mormon stories about Jesus walking the halls, etc.
Our group drove probably 15-16 hours from Southern Oregon to LA. This was in '62 or '63 before the Oakland Temple was built and before the widespread use of air conditioning in automobiles. This was also in the summer, so we were all plenty hot and tired by the time we arrived at the temple. When our bunch of boys and girls went into the office near the baptistry, before we got suited up, we were settled in for a lecture on the holiness of the work, the need for reverence, the mechanics of how the baptisms would proceed, etc.
Then, the girls were taken to a separate room and any who were having their period were asked to raise their hands. We were told that none of us would be allowed in the font if we were having our period, not even if we were wearing internal protection because just ONE DROP of blood would contaminate the baptismal waters and "we" wouldn't want to stop the work of the Lord for the font to have to be drained and refilled, now would "we?" I remember worrying that somehow my cycle might start accidently while I was in the font, that some man would notice and accuse me, and that I would be responsible for setting back the work of the Lord, inadvertantly. I felt nerve wracked with fear until, fortunately, my turn was over safely.
Sitting in that lecture, I couldn't help but think of some of my young men peers on the trip. Their sweaty armpits. And their hair! (This was the time when men's hair oil and other similar hair goo were still in fashion among Mormon male teens. The Mormons dress and hair styles always seeming to lag about 10 years behind the popular culture as they do.) I recall wondering at the time how the boys could waltz right into the font with their sweaty bodies and Vitalis and NOT contaminate the holy baptismal waters but a protected, menstruating woman would. I also felt sorry for one of my friends who had made the whole, long trip only to find out at the last minute that she would not be allowed to participate in the baptims for this reason.
Many years later, in the mid-80s, I was living in the Dallas, TX temple district. One Sunday in Relief Society an announcement from the Temple President was read in the meeting. It was a notice that menstruating women were no longer allowed to attend the temple unless they were there for their own endowments or to be married. The letter stated that such women caused too much inconvenience to the temple staff and were ruining the temple clothing and furniture! When I heard it, I felt furious and hated the supremacy implied in the request. I vowed never to go to the Dallas Temple and within a few years, eventually stopped temple attendance at all as I awakened to the possiblity of life without Mormonism. Anyone else had similar experiences regarding temple "contamination" by women? - 09/22/1999 - Linda in LA
By the time I left the church, youth baptism at the temple had become anything but a pleasant experience. We traveled for about 16 hours in a bus to get there then sat around in rooms for what seemed an eternity until it was our turn. The old fogies running the sessions were frequently stressed out and very stern with the youth. They were obviously not called on a mission because of their skills with handling large crowds of youth, who were generally very well behaved anyway. They also had the problem that the baptism rate was far outstripping the endowment rate for the corpses. As a result they set a quota of 10 baptisms per kid and that was it. All over in a minute after a bloody 16-hour drive! The only real reason for going was for the kids to supposedly enjoy the temple experience. which they usually didn't!
About 2 years ago at the Sydney Temple they put a stop to combined YM and YW baptisms. This was a real hassle for visitors from out of state because the sessions took even longer. More sitting around in rooms pretending to feel spiritual and smiling at each other pretending to be happy. The kids were bored out of their brains. I rang up the temple and explained the difficulty and asked why the change. The guy I spoke to was shocked that I would ask why. I should not question as the leaders were right. When pressed he explained that it was felt improper for the boys to see the outline of the young women's bodies through the inch thick overalls as they came out of the font!! You would be hard pressed to distinguish the sex of the body in the overalls, let alone get excited about it!! He also said that this would bring Sydney Temple into line with temples in the US. Is this correct? Absolute stupidity. Half the kids would be off down the beach later in the day, but I guess the temple experience kept their thoughts pure. - 09/23/1999 - Gavin
I went to do baptisms for the dead with my age group and the one a year older. There were probably 8 to 10 girls. This would be early 80's.
We went through the process of getting our recommends, preparing, going to the temple and when we get there and we've collected our clothes, and we're getting ready to change, we're standing there in a group, and we're asked if any one of us is menstruating. I was. I was also wearing a tampon. I figured - hey, I'm not going to speak up it's no different than a public swimming pool. For me, having my period was not something that I discussed with the other girls and I wasn't going to start. It was very private. So, then I felt guilty for not fessing up and being honest in the temple of all places.
About a year ago I went to a party and I met someone who is an ex-Mormon. She had had the exact experience (except different time and place). It was so cathartic to talk about the experience and the guilt.
It angers me that they set young girls up for humiliation this way. It's like - shame, shame, you have your period. We all know you have your period and we're going to set you aside from the group because of it and make a little public announcement about it. You don't get to do the special service that everybody else is doing and that you've been built up to believe will be a spiritual event.
You would think that they would tell the girls before they make the effort to make the trip, that you're not allowed in the font with your period. But no ... that would be too kind and thoughtful. - 09/23/1999 - Martie
I get unlimited amusement at the panicky protests from outraged Mormon sheep; especially those whose grasp of English is pitiful. Indeed, the truth can be hard on the eyes and mind. - 03/23/2013 - Zelph
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU. NOW I KNOW THERE ARE TRULY STUPID AND IGNORANT PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD AND THEY CAN ALL BE FOUND ON THIS SITE. I WILL NOTIFY ALL TO NEVER COME HERE IN CASE YOUR STUPIDITY IS CONTAGIOUS!!!!!!!!!
YOUR STUPID TEMPLE RECOMMEND STYLE ISN'T EVEN VALID ANYMORE IGNORANT PEOPLE!!!!!!!! - 09/29/2008 - nonofurbusnez
Dear Brother whoever you are I found the previous writings quite out of order considering they are connected to a church profile. The feelings I had after I had viewed the previous photos (inside the Temple,)turned into disgust for such a thing to happen. The article of a member dropping his trousers for all to see what he had underneath was completly out of order to my ideas of Christian thinking and living and it has knocked my Faith not of the Church but of some members. Discustingly Keith. - 09/18/2008 - KEITH GEDDES
you guys are rediculous! You will be judged for what you are doing! - 08/09/2008 - anon
YOU'RE VARY STUPID MAN VOCÊ É UM VERDADEIRO ESTUPIDO , UM BOSSAL SEM NOÇÃO QUE NÃO SOUBE SER FIEL E FAZ TAMANHA BESTEIRA , DIRIGINDO-SE LÓGICO , PARA UM INFERNO SEM FIM . - 07/15/2008 - MÁRCIO OLIVEIRA
I'll never forget the first time I saw anyone in temple robes. I was getting my endowments in the Salt Lake Temple, and while changing at my locker several men came into the room, evidently after a session. I was quite amazed at how disheveled they looked and how awkward the clothing appeared on them. I was a TBM then, and for many years after, but still I had opinions that didn't always square with the general membership. I always thought that it would probably be a good idea if those in charge (yeah, them) would hire a good clothing designer and do something with the various articles to make them look a little more tailored to the human form. This of course is highly unlikely to happen, and it leaves me only to conclude that the design of Mormon temple clothing is proof positive that neither Joseph Smith or Brigham Young were gay. - 04/21/2008 - ScreenusNomus
XXX - Your experience is the quintessential father's experience that has chosen to leave or never was part of the church. From my perspective as the mother, I too felt all that bitter contempt for a church that could exclude the very mother of the child getting married on some bizarre ruling that our lack of temple "Worthiness" makes us a negative presence in the Mormon temples. The gross offensiveness of all this overwhelms me with anger sometimes. I feel for your pain and frustration. I have sat out two and only have one more to go and will forever hold the LDS Church accountable for driving wedges between families rather than unifying them, especially at such an important part of a childs life. Yes, strangers and brief acquaintences were more "worthy" in the eyes of this parody of a "Family Centric" organization and I too watched with a strange detatchment as the people filed past and gave me that look of pity and somewhat arrogant contempt. Yes, I'll post this and I'll keep posting it so that it gets read again and again. I know many of the Morgs borgs moniter the site and I hope it is as damning to those who sanctimoniously hold themselves above the rest of us as it is to the church leaders who enforce such a blatantly offensive ruling.
Like you, I watched the McMormon automatic car wash experience in that rushed, generic, anxiety producing and horrific sense of pressure as the groups crowded on the steps and the marathon of photos were quickly snapped to catalouge the "Experience". My daughter got married in February and it was a beautiful clear cold day in Bountiful but there were no flowers or color to make the photos more special. The morning light was in our eyes, the crowd hurried and the breeze messing our hair up so that most of the photos look more like a drive by than a memorable arrangement. My sons was at the SL temple and was exactly as you described. Brides and grooms were almost getting into fist fights to take their place on the steps and have the proverbial photos with the entourage quickly arranging and then parting for the next group. It does feel like the most impersonal processing one can imagine.
That's funny that the Morbots speak with reverence of the 103 weddings on one day. They also claim that the church is the same wherever you go. For the life of me I cannot imagine WHY anyone would take pride in being one of 10 billion served, as if their Mcburger wedding was more unique than the other 999 billion. Some go without the pickles or mustard, and some like onions, but in the end, it's all a pre-formed meat like substance on a smashed bread like dough substance and cooked till the flavor is gone, and then served with all the reverence one would give a morning tooth brushing. I've had DMV appointments that were more personal. NEXT... I almost expect the participants to moo in unison. They would do well to get one of those cattle/sheep stall apparatus to help keep the crowds in check and processing through in a timely manner.
I love the green screen idea and all the entourage on a bus that just pulls up and goes through in some mass production fashion. It's similar to my conveyor belt idea with an ATM at the front with the gift selection being deducted as you swipe your card, and the belt moves along and you meet the wedding party, and at the end of the line is a nut cup/7 up dispenser and a plop of sherbet seals the deal. They could process them through in fairly short order and increase the rotation considerably on a given Saturday night. Imagine the usefullness of the ward gymnasium if you could process 6 receptions a night rather than one or two.
Hey, why not just implant the LDS with a neck chip like we do our dogs and they could pass by the skew reader and their number would show on a cash register at the front of the church and it would show how much tithing they owe, how much they've paid, how many times they've been to the bishop, what their calling is, and all the other necessary details for the "Merchandise" and if they meet the quota's, they get processed through the temple, matched up to another coordinating product (make sure the genitalia isn't the same,.. that would be a gross sin) and then hook them with one of those special guns that they shoot a plastic string through matching shoes at WalMart, and then process them together. It can't possibly be more impersonal than the way they're pressured to match up at BYU and BYU-I and processed through the marriage machine. - 03/26/2008 - by Insanad
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