At The Feet Of The Prophets
Close Encounters of the G.A. Kind

As you "hie unto Kolob", don't worry, leave the faith un-promoting to us. What is it like to have daily dealings with the prophets seers and revelators? Please submit your stories of personal interaction with past and present General Authorities in the box at the bottom of this page. Drag your mouse across the images for side bars. Click on the images and links for the inside stories.

The First Redundency

A card carrying member of 'Control Freaks Anonymous'and he does all this just for Jesus. Thomas S Monson - Warm fuzzy specialist from the pulpit. Cold calculator in business world.

Henry B Eyring - .

Dieter F Uchtdorf - .

The Swarm of the Twelve

Apostle and heart surgeon. Russell M Nelson - Apostle, heart surgeon and skier.

From one supreme court to another Dallin sits in judgement. When will he use some real judgment and become the first sitting apostle to voluntarily resign out of integrity? Dallin H Oaks - The Lord's own private defense lawyer placing the world on trial.

Russell M Ballard - .

Richard G Scott - .

Robert D Hales - .

Jeffrey R Holland Jeffrey R Holland - Creating an art form out of humility and niceness.

David A Bednar - .

Quentin L Cook - .

D Todd Christofferson - .

Neil L Andersen - .

Elder B. Rown Noser - Possible first Dark and Delightsome Apostle.

Elder Juan A Bee - Possible first Hispanic Apostle.

Passed On Prophets

The Lord's prophet a drift down the mainstream river of religion. Throw Gordon an 'eternal life' preserver. Gordon B Hinckley - Putting the "P-R" back into "P-R-O-P-H-E-T" and the "smooze" into news.

Also known as the 'Cold War Prophet' for his fanatical right wing antics and endorsement of the John Birch Society. Ezra Taft Benson - Always doing what the Lord would do especially if Jesus had been a communist hating, sexist, bigot.

The Lord's temporary prophet who was too nice a guy to remain the prophet for long. Howard W Hunter - The Lord's very own Mr. Nice Guy.

Joseph F Smith, Joseph F Smith, Jr. - 6th president of the LDS Church was also president of how many other corporations? Check out the Reed Smoot hearings.

Brigham changed doctrine as often as he changed wives for the evening's pleasures. Brigham Young - Brigham Young is to prophets as Jay Leno is to stand up comics. Just make it up as you go.

Joseph Smith was a colorful character who also included 'shady black' as one those shining colors. Joseph Smith, Jr. - Nostradamus reincarnated? Magician or prophet? The most mysterious Mormon?

Passed Over Prophets

A card carrying member of 'Control Freaks Anonymous'and he does all this just for Jesus. Boyd K Packer - The most despised General Authority alive and he loves it that way.

The tallest apostle with that cheezy grin. L Tom Perry - The tallest apostle flashing that cheezy grin.

The Ex-CIA agent for the Lord. Neal A Maxwell - The glory of God is gathering intelligence - X-CIA agent apostle.

Telling whoppers for the Lord. Paul H Dunn - Telling whoppers for the Lord.

Bruce R McConkie boomed out the McKookiest doctrine of all modern apostles Bruce R McConkie - Bruce R wrote that "great and abominable" tome, Mormon Doctrine.

The quiet member of the First Presidency. James E Faust - "Yes, I'll go where you want me to go dear Gord."

Cold war leftovers anyone? Cleon Skousen - "The Naked Mormonalist", Salt Lake City Police Chief and the man even the Lord was too afraid of to call as one of His apostles.

____________________________________________________________________

This eye-opening book invokes a larger issue: in our search for guidance and truth, when and why do we cross the line from reasoned inquirer to unquestioning follower? Feet of Clay - Saints, Sinners, and Madmen: A Study of Gurus. How do Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, et al. fit into the scheme of things?

Gimme The Old School Prophets

07/24/2015 by Anonymous_Ascendent White and Delightsome at Reddit Exmormon

I miss the old school crazy prophets who actually made interesting and decisive declarations. Modern prophets just hem and haw tirelessly on the same rotation of 15 or so subjects (pornography, faith, tithing, family, etc).

Joseph Smith alleged he translated ancient gold plates found in a hill with magical seer stones. Brigham Young went on about moon people and blood atonement. Those guys had some crazy balls.

All we get recently is old men reluctantly updating church policy to comply with law or social pressure.

The Tweets of Wilford Woodruff

06/30/2015 by Book of Mordor at Recovery from Mormonism

Introduction

At the end of an artfully concealed passageway within the F (First Presidency's) Vault at Granite Mountain can be found a hidden trap door leading to a secret sub-basement. Using my special set of skills, I had navigated my way into this forgotten room. I passed by the Liahona, the Sword of Laban, what looked like a Jaredite-barge shining stone thingy, and the head of Shiz in a jar; these trifles were not the reason for my dangerous and clandestine visit. I found myself sweating and mopped my face with the nearby Title of Liberty.

In the far corner of the sub-basement, I spotted an opening in the floor. Creeping over for a closer look, I beheld a spiral staircase winding endlessly down into the abyssal blackness. Eldritch symbols and unsettling images were engraven upon its cold steps, but I knew that I must descend, for the mysterious Fat Man had insisted there was no other way. My flashlight flickered and I hoped that I had inserted alkaline batteries instead of the cheap regular ones.

At length I arrived at the nethermost alcove below the mountain. And there! next to the casks of Amontillado I spied the prize and object of my search: a small locked wooden box. But not just any box, for it contained a priceless artifact. I promptly seized the box and got the hell out of there.

Returning to my room at the Crystal Inn Hotel in Murray, I brought out the key which had proven so difficult to procure. If you can recall that one "Pirates" scene with Will Turner and a sleeping Davy Jones at the organ, you get the idea. But that tale I dare not relate in full. Suffice it to say that the telling would cause men to weep and women to giggle.

My hand trembled as the key turned and the lock clicked open. I slowly raised the lid and at last gazed with wonder on that for which I had risked all. With my heart pounding, I removed it, and so I now hold...the Flash Drive of the Prophets.

The Flash Drive of the Prophets! Naught but rumors and whispers can be heard about it from the wizened merchants who lurk in the dark recesses of City Creek Center. To think that I am now in possession of it is almost more than I can bear. But I must make haste, and share what I can of the supernal treasures stored on it. And so I present to you, dear readers, the Tweets of Wilford Woodruff.

@Big_Ol_Woody
Getting dunked a mormon in a few. Gonna be an #IceBath, f**king freezing!!!
10:48 AM Š 31 Dec 1833

@Big_Ol_Woody
@ParleyPPratt says I have 2 go 2 some podunk place called Kirtland. Pratt's a horse's @$$ control freak. Why do I have this urge 2 run?
3:41 PM Š 1 Apr 1834

@Big_Ol_Woody
Meeting the big guy @JosephSmithJr now. Hairy dude. Whats up w/ all the girls & can I get some?
11:22 AM Š 25 Apr 1834

@Big_Ol_Woody
Showed JS a leg bone & arrowhead. He's #OffHisMeds, starts on about a white Indian named Zelph. Great prophet Onandagus, I call bulls**t.
1:14 PM Š 3 Jun 1834

@Big_Ol_Woody
Mission, WTF?!? No one told me that! #BaitAndSwitch
10:58 AM Š 11 Nov 1834

@Big_Ol_Woody
Movin on up, in the 1Q70 now. Gonna get small folks 2 #PaintMyHouse 4 me. ROFL!
12:39 PM Š 3 Jan 1837

@Big_Ol_Woody
Got me some action at last ABOUT TIME! Phoebe's 30 like me not a babe but I'll take it. JS promised me a bunch more later haha.
8:03 AM Š 14 Apr 1837

@Big_Ol_Woody
Another mission?! Finally getting laid & have 2 leave again, whats wrong w/ u ppl?
11:40 AM Š 9 May 1837

@Big_Ol_Woody
Made APOSTLE 2day! JACKPOT!! I'm famous, u must all BOW DOWN BE4 ME!
3:11 PM Š 26 Apr 1839

@Big_Ol_Woody
Another f**king mission. England this time. F**k.
8:46 AM Š 8 Aug 1839

@Big_Ol_Woody
Dunked 600 chumps past 6 wks. @JohnTaylor had the idea, calls it #CricketBaptisms. Seems 2 work.
11:17 PM Š 10 Apr 1840

@Big_Ol_Woody
Seeing Phoebe soon, YES! Horny as all s**t, have 2 make up 4 lost time.
9:43 AM Š 2 Jun 1841

@Big_Ol_Woody
JS showed me the "Urem&Thumem" (sp?) 2day. Just a f**king rock but had 2 make a HUGE deal like OMG! OMG, faint! LOL!! Rube.
7:09 PM Š 27 Dec 1841

@Big_Ol_Woody
Goofy s**t around here starting 2 get 2 me. Seeing stream of light in sky shaped like sword. Must be going crazy.
8:21 PM Š 10 Mar 1843

@Big_Ol_Woody
Oh my head. F**king sky sword changed in2 a ring w/ balls of light inside. JS says sky sword means big war coming. #NauvooMadHouse
9:12 PM Š 14 Mar 1843

@Big_Ol_Woody
BIG DAY 2DAY GETTIN MY SECOND ANOINTING ON!!! #GoldenTicket #IGotMine
10:02 AM Š 28 Jan 1844

@Big_Ol_Woody
Moved in2 new house yesterday. Got it "broken in" last nite w/ Phoebe heh. Life = good.
8:31 AM Š 5 Mar 1844

@Big_Ol_Woody
Another mission ARE YOU F**KING KIDDING ME??? Want 2 kick JS in the nutz. #LoserTyrant
4:04 PM Š 6 May 1844

@Big_Ol_Woody
OHHH S**T reading in Boston paper JS shot, killed. Bet that SOB Young is gonna try 2 take over. Not good. Need 2 get drunk fast.
3:50 PM Š 9 Jul 1844

@Big_Ol_Woody
Its over. #TheBrigham is prez now. Every1 else kissed butt so couldn't say anything. Have 2 play nice. F**k we're doomed.
2:57 PM Š 8 Aug 1844

@Big_Ol_Woody
Another mission 2 #Europe but it's OK this time b/c I'm MP now & can order every1 around. #HastenTheWork serfs!!
12:25 PM Š 12 Aug 1844

@Big_Ol_Woody
Back in Nauvoo again WhereTF is every1? Half the town gone. Oh well got 2 run home I have DEEP blue balls LOL!
3:33 PM Š 13 Apr 1846

@Big_Ol_Woody
Some army jerkwad wants volunteers 4 #MexicanWar. F**k that. Where were u earlier? Passed buck up 2 #TheBrigham.
11:20 AM Š 26 Jun 1846

@Big_Ol_Woody
Marrying 3 chix 2day have #HaremOf4 SWEEEET!! Mary A's 28 Mary C's 17 Sarah's 18 & I can hardly wait! Phoebe not happy TFB.
8:44 AM Š 2 Aug 1846

@Big_Ol_Woody
Teenage wives a pain, want guys their own age. Can't figure it out. BE GONE YE HARLOTS! Just the 2 wifeys 4 now.
10:55 AM Š 29 Aug 1846

@Big_Ol_Woody
OW F**K A TREE JUST FELL ON ME F**K GODDAM S**T THAT HURTS OW OW
2:27 PM Š 15 Oct 1846

@Big_Ol_Woody
Both wives preg, always complaining about something SHUT IT! Leaving em 2 each other 4 female bonding. ROAD TRIP YEAH!!
4:06 PM Š 5 Apr 1847

@Big_Ol_Woody
This place is a dump, total #ForsakenWasteland. Deseret my @$$. BY = idiot.
9:56 AM Š 24 Jul 1847

@Big_Ol_Woody
Climbing a mountain 2day. Full suit tie & vest. F**k I'm hot tired & #NeedABath. It's never enough is it BY? Never f**king enough. Ever.
12:34 PM Š 26 Jul 1847

I have been discovered. My actions here have alerted the Strengthening Church Members Committee. Even as I write I can hear Danite footsteps echoing in the hall. I must escape. Brethren, hasta ma–ana.

Praise Darwin, I have outwitted my foes. Oaks' Blokes chased me down the fire stairs and into the hotel lobby, but I threw down some banana peels upon which they slipped and fell. My northern and eastern escape routes were too heavily guarded, and Wendover is a hole. I have turned south and found refuge in Santaquin, but cannot linger.

@Big_Ol_Woody
F**ked up dream, prob drank 2 much #barleycorn. Saw JS & a lot of ppl in white robes making crowns. Have 2 get off the stuff.
2:17 AM Š 16 Mar 1848

@Big_Ol_Woody
Mary A divorcing me 2morrow WTF is going on? Not like I've been away from home neglecting her, oh wait I did. All right go then. S**t.
1:51 PM Š 10 May 1848

@Big_Ol_Woody
Have 2 tell BY I need women 2 #LiveUp2Privileges. Down 2 only Phoebe since last divorce, not enough. Must find #PerkyBoobs soon.
10:03 AM Š 16 Mar 1852

@Big_Ol_Woody
S**t, have 2 marry this widow named Mary, she's 48. Older than me. Guess #TheBrigham is pissed at me. Need 2 brown nose again.
9:26 PM Š 27 Mar 1852

@Big_Ol_Woody
Mary died 2day so just 1 wife again. We can #KeepEmComing tho. Have another picked out already, Clarissa's 17.
6:16 PM Š 3 Oct 1852

@Big_Ol_Woody
#TheBrigham dedicating #SLTemple site, droning on & on & on. Will NOT close pie hole. Want 2 go home, drink #beer.
11:41 AM Š 14 Feb 1853

@Big_Ol_Woody
Bad luck w/ teens, Clarissa divorced me 2. Trying again 2day w/ 2 new hotties, Emma 15 & Sarah 19. I'm 46 haha. SCORE.
8:28 AM Š 13 Mar 1853

@Big_Ol_Woody
Off again, have 2 travel across the f**king country 2 buy s**t 4 the #DeseretAlphabet. Just another wild hair out of BY's @$$.
9:02 AM Š 3 Mar 1856

@Big_Ol_Woody
Addressed bumpkins in conf 2day in favor of #handcart ops. All have 2 back #TheBrigham on this or else. #NoConscience
3:23 PM Š 6 Oct 1856

@Big_Ol_Woody
Promised hayseeds some would be alive 4 return of #TenTribes & give em endowments. Never know what the f**k I'm talking about.
1:57 PM Š 22 Feb 1857

@Big_Ol_Woody
OH: @JamesBuchanan 2 send in US Army. ROFLMAO!! #BringItOn, Prez! We shall summon mighty earthquakes 2 swallow you up!!
12:08 PM Š 24 Jul 1857

@Big_Ol_Woody
Another wife 2day! 9th overall but 4th staying. Hard 2 keep track. Sarah Delight's just 19 say hi 2 Mr. Woodruff! #DelightMe
11:01 AM Š 31 Jul 1857

@Big_Ol_Woody
@JohnDLee ran in 2day shouting about #MountainMeadows something? Said Indians killed ppl. Yawn. BFD, need 2 get ready 4 army.
3:47 PM Š 29 Sep 1857

@Big_Ol_Woody
Spoke 2day in the Tab, said #God progressing in knowledge & power. Crowd ate it up, go figure. These dips**ts believe everything.
2:24 PM Š 6 Dec 1857

@Big_Ol_Woody
Running away 2 Provo since army's almost here. Expected #God 2 send down useful s**t like #FlamingAngels but nope. #WhatElseIsNew
9:05 AM Š 7 Apr 1858

@Big_Ol_Woody
Yeah right wool. Nothin better 2 wear in CK huh Heber u jackhole? RT @HeberCKimball: Peter wore wool when he came 2 Kirtland temple
3:46 PM Š 9 Feb 1862

@Big_Ol_Woody
Emma ready 2 pop any day, Delight 3 mo along. Sarah's turn 2 receive some laying on of hands & gift of the holy spurt haha.
6:58 PM Š 29 Jan 1863

@Big_Ol_Woody
Prophesied Albany 2 be destroyed by fire, Boston by tidal wave, NYC by quake. BY stood up & agreed. We're just makin it all up as we go.
4:12 PM Š 21 Aug 1863

@Big_Ol_Woody
Emma & Delight WAY preggers & HUUUGE, Sarah busy nursing kid last 8 mo, Phoebe's 61, nowhere 2 go 4 sugar.
2:35 PM Š 13 Jul 1868

@Big_Ol_Woody
Have 2 put up w/ this bats**t EVERY SINGLE F**KING DAY around here. RT @BrighamYoung: #Sun & #Moon are inhabited
5:00 PM Š 24 Jul 1870

@Big_Ol_Woody
Think I finally did it, 3 wives prego at same time. D*ck is sore tho & G's rub against it fierce. #NoSpermLeft, balls shrunk 2 pea size.
10:42 PM Š 21 Nov 1872

@Big_Ol_Woody
OH: rumor #PolandAct passed by @Congress yesterday, easier 2 prosecute plyg. We will DIE be4 we abandon plyg!!! #NoSurrender
10:29 AM Š 24 Jun 1874

@Big_Ol_Woody
Got the shaft again. I'm older than Taylor, next in line but f**king Q12 jumped him ahead of me just b/c he was ordained 1st. Hate u f**ks.
1:48 PM Š 10 Apr 1875

@Big_Ol_Woody
Talked again about #TenTribes coming soon. Might even convince myself of this s**t someday. #NotGonnaHappen
2:45 PM Š 24 Jun 1875

@Big_Ol_Woody
Told everybody 2day that #Millennium is dawning soon blah blah. Would be amazed if anything I said ever actually happened.
3:31 PM Š 12 Sep 1875

@Big_Ol_Woody
Meeting w/ @UlyssesSGrant, as usual #TheBrigham is boring the living s**t out of the Prez. Put a sock in it 4 once u douche.
10:18 AM Š 3 Oct 1875

@Big_Ol_Woody
BY said 2 write temple s**t down. Started last Nov u dumb coot. Will make this crapola all scary weird w/ #BloodOaths 2 freak ppl out haha.
12:32 PM Š 14 Jan 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Think BY likes me b/c he's giving me his daughter Eudora 2morrow. She's 24 & OK I guess. Can't do s**t at 70 tho.
5:22 PM Š 9 Mar 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
#TheBrigham doesnt like me after all, I get now why he dumped his daughter on me. Well played BY.
11:14 AM Š 11 Mar 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
You'll NEVER believe this!! Bunch of ghosts in wigs just showed up in SG Temple! G-Wash, T-Jef, B-Frank, all of em! OMG SICK!!!
12:56 PM Š 19 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Now they're all #BooHoo about no temple work 4 em yet. Waited soooo long wah wah wah. Scuse us guys we've been busy.
12:59 PM Š 19 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Introducing themselves 1 by 1. BORRRING. U signed #DeclarationOfIndependence? Never heard of most of these ppl. Who are all u jokers??
1:07 PM Š 19 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Button Gwinet? (sp?) WTF stupid name is Button? Wait til I tell BY's kid Mahonri Moriancumer Young, he'll die laughing. Button, ROFL!!
2:21 PM Š 19 Aug 1877

I hear voices in the distance, shouts of "Oh, fetch!" coming closer. How did they find me so quickly? Into the night once more. Brethren, peace out.

Again I have survived. The fools really ought to remove their sunglasses at night, but it seems to be against the rules. They left only the chauffeur to guard their car, a custom 2013 Bentley Mulsanne bearing the license plate "MONSON6." (How many does he have?) I dispatched the poor fellow using a can of Mountain Dew heavily laced with Ex-Lax, then drove away. I exited the interstate at Nephi, later abandoned the Bentley in Milford and have made my way to Minersville. I should be safe here. No one has ever visited this town.

@Big_Ol_Woody
Its T-Jef by himself this time. Looks uncomfortable, says something about wants 2 marry #SallyHemings? I say IDK, need more info.
10:34 AM Š 20 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
OK get this. So I pray & see Sally! HOLY S**T SMOKIN HOT!!! I get an idea, play cool, say sorry no, #CurseOfCain etc. He's sad & goes.
10:38 AM Š 20 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
TJ's back. I offer 2 swap my 3rd, 4th & 6th wives 2 him 4 Sally. Don't fess up these 3 divorced me haha. He says he'll get back 2 me.
1:19 PM Š 20 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Can u f**king BELIEVE IT?!? #SelfishGhost said *NO* 2 my trade!! T-JEF IS AN A-HOLE!!! #IWantSally
3:53 PM Š 20 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Got dunking done 4 all these dead guys & a few more. Got water up my nose LOL! #Columbus will be sooo grateful 2 me!
7:30 PM Š 21 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Just woke up from dream about Sally H, look down & ewwww gross!!! Long time since that happened, didn't know I still could haha!
1:16 AM Š 25 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
BIG news! BY finally kicked it, seemed that tool would never go! Guess that HOT @AnnElizaWebb broke his heart. Annie #TelegraphMe anytime!!
11:57 PM Š 29 Aug 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
At funeral of #TheBrigham, now I'm 1 step closer 2 prez. Snoozefest, bored 2 tears. Have 2 speak later, hope I can stay awake.
10:24 AM Š 2 Sep 1877

@Big_Ol_Woody
Eudora had son yesterday but he died. Time 2 visit Emma 4 replacement. Delight 7 mo preg wonder if she's OK haha.
8:29 AM Š 2 Apr 1878

@Big_Ol_Woody
got 2 run n hide the us marshals r after me that b**ch eudora divorced me n ratted me out 2 the govt why do all these b**ches turn on me?
7:43 PM Š 7 Feb 1879

@Big_Ol_Woody
Beware O Earth 4 the Hour of the Judgment of #God is Upon U! Seriously! I'm Not Kidding This Time, I Really Really Mean It!!
5:13 AM Š 26 Jan 1880

@Big_Ol_Woody
Q12 droolers took my Jan nutter ramblings as the Word of #TheLord so it's official #revelation. Shaking my head, it's a #circus here.
4:48 PM Š 4 Apr 1880

@Big_Ol_Woody
Talking on #SignsOfTimes, this generation 2 see return of JC blah blah blah. Have 2 keep it going til the gomers wise up 2 us.
3:17 PM Š 3 Jul 1880

@Big_Ol_Woody
Telegram: Prez @ChesterAArthur signed #EdmundsAct yesterday. #TheLord shall PROTECT US as w/ FIRE ye MINIONS OF SATAN!!!
10:11 AM Š 25 Mar 1882

@Big_Ol_Woody
Saw CK mansions in dream last nite, the best #HeavenlyArchitects were building em. Must be getting f**king senile or something.
6:06 AM Š 30 Dec 1882

@Big_Ol_Woody
Have 2 go on the run again, gettin 2 old 4 this s**t. What a f**king joke, not like I'm boning any1, #CantGetItUp w/ a pulley.
8:14 AM Š 14 Jan 1885

@Big_Ol_Woody
GEO EDMUNDS & JOHN TUCKER BY THE POWER OF THE P/H IN THE NAME OF J-C I SENTENCE U BOTH 2 INSTANT DEATH & ETERNAL DAMNATION IN OUTER DARKNESS
10:59 AM Š 14 Jan 1887

@Big_Ol_Woody
Did it work?
8:41 PM Š 15 Jan 1887

@Big_Ol_Woody
F**k me we are so screwed
11:28 AM Š 17 Jan 1887

@Big_Ol_Woody
OH: Taylor died yesterday so I'm prez now. Super, just f**king splendid. Can't even go 2 #outhouse w/ out being arrested.
1:15 PM Š 26 Jul 1887

@Big_Ol_Woody
Put my foot in it again. Prophesied that SS & MIA kids in audience 2 live 2 see #SecondComing. I'll be long dead by then #SoSueMe.
11:03 AM Š 29 Jul 1889

@Big_Ol_Woody
Ridiculous horses**t, surrounded by cretins. RT @OrsonFWhitney: JS: #TowerOfBabel built 2 reach #CityOfEnoch suspended in midair
10:37 PM Š 22 Sep 1889

@Big_Ol_Woody
Another #revelation from #God hooray! Not going 2 give up plyg 2 become state. #TheKingdom doesn't take terms it makes em.
10:36 PM Š 24 Nov 1889

@Big_Ol_Woody
Telegram: @SupremeCourt upheld #EdmundsTucker. #God promised 2 fight our f**king battles but chucked us, what a surprise.
9:44 AM Š 20 May 1890

@Big_Ol_Woody
Time 2 give up plyg. Need 2 make up some lame@$$ excuse 4 blowhards like BY & Kimball & Pratt etc. Thx a heap #God big help u were.
1:54 PM Š 24 Sep 1890

@Big_Ol_Woody
Have 2 #TapDance 4 every1 about why we caved after 50 yrs of big bulls**t CK promises & brave talk of US collapse. #EpicFail
9:49 AM Š 6 Oct 1890

@Big_Ol_Woody
Its good. Said more crap about never leading church astray, remove out of our place blah blah. Will all #BlowOverSoon, plebs wont remember.
11:10 AM Š 6 Oct 1890

@Big_Ol_Woody
@JosephFSmith asked 4 chat w/ son J Fielding 2day his 15 bday. #WeirdKid if u ask me. Arrogant little f**k, not 2 sharp, kinda creepy.
1:42 PM Š 19 Jul 1891

@Big_Ol_Woody
Dedicating #SLTemple 2day, hosanna hosanna barf. Have #hangover, feel like s**t, might need #coffee 2 stay sharp haha.
9:19 AM Š 6 Apr 1893

@Big_Ol_Woody
Told peasants in conf 2day #OMyFather is #revelation haha. Sometimes I kill me.
4:52 PM Š 8 Oct 1893

@Big_Ol_Woody
B-Frank said hi in bizarro dream. Had long talk, he wanted more temple s**t done. I said OK if he would bug T-Jef about #SallyHemings.
3:46 AM Š 20 Mar 1894

@Big_Ol_Woody
Utah state but w/ out plyg dammit. Bogus Ō89 #revelation was test from #God I bet. Uh yeah thats it. U cant criticize me I'm the profit.
12:08 PM Š 4 Jan 1896

@Big_Ol_Woody
Conf talk earlier 2day, kids here 2 be alive 4 #SecondComing. Same ol s**t 60 yrs, they're just never gonna learn. Dumb@$$es 4ever.
6:25 PM Š 8 Apr 1898

Betrayed! *facepalm* It must have been a local, besotted with the false promises of a special second anointing for my capture. If I could hie to Kolob Canyons I might yet stand a chance. I will return and report, should I live. Brethren, whatever.

The Tweets of Wilford Woodruff: The Hunt is On!

It has come to this at last. I was hotly pursued into Zion National Park and alas! have tragically lost the Flash Drive of the Prophets while scrambling over the lovely pink cliffs. I fear that it will never be found, save perhaps by an intrepid contributor to this board. Once I reach Mesquite I think I will be free. The Committee has no power beyond Utah, and the breakfast buffet at the CasaBlanca is not half bad. I thank you, dear readers, for your time and attention but damn I really must move or I am toast. Brethr

The Tweets of Wilford Woodruff: Epilogue

The boys were close on my heels all the way to St. George, where I ditched them for good as they were gorging on thirds at Golden Corral's dessert table. I held to the course of the Virgin River through Arizona, entering Nevada near Bunkerville. Being famished I was compelled to rustle and BBQ one of Cliven Bundy's cattle. And it came to pass that I arrived in Las Vegas clinging to the back of a big rig. I relax now poolside at Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino. All is well! My adventure is finished and I return to a normal existence, buying tequilas for sun-kissed topless honeys. I thank you once more for your kind attention. Brethren, I do.

P.S. For obvious reasons I've been out of the loop the past six days...did anything interesting happen?

The Disastrous & Disgraceful History Of First Presidency Declarations

02/03/2010 by esias

When the Morg God speaks to the world, He takes full advantage to push the latest sexist, racist or downright mad fad that takes His fancy. How impressed might we have been in 1909, say, if God had said, Don't run with a privately-run Federal Reserve, or say, Beware a bloke called Hitler. But no, we get this rubbish:

"It is held by some that Adam was not the first man upon this earth and that the original human being was a development from lower orders of the animal creation. These, however, are the theories of men. The word of the Lord declared that Adam was Ōthe first man of all men' (Moses 1:34), and we are therefore in duty bound to regard him as the primal parent of our race." First Presidency statement, Improvement Era November 1909.

Rrrrriiiiight. If evolution is bunkum, perhaps God might have taken the opportunity to kindly explain why.

The 1940s sound like the golden opportunity for God to give the lead on a platform of anti-racism. But no, the Morg God declares that in His fascist empire, racism rules OK:

"We are not unmindful of the fact that there is a growing tendency, particularly among educators, as it manifests itself in this area, toward the breaking down of race barriers in the matter of intermarriage between whites and blacks, but it does not have the sanction of the church and is contrary to church doctrine." First Presidency letter 17th July 1947, Mormonism and the Negro pp46-47.

All white then. The 1950s might have been the high time to bury old racist rubbish. Go go go the Morg God:

"Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes."

What good advice might God have given the pitiful children of planet Earth in the 70s and 80s. What's on God's mind then?

"The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it." Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, 5th January 1982.

The Morg God just loves to give the best sex advice Morg money can buy - here in 1982 God kindly reveals the hidden cause of homosexuality. Oo-er-missus.

"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality." Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church 5th January 1982.

And here's the biggest shocker. This time, the mad Morg God takes a side-swipe at the little kiddies. A program of support and love for single mothers, yes? Nope:

"Church members who are involved in pregnancy out of wedlock are encouraged to go to their bishop. By virtue of his priesthood office and calling, he can counsel with them as they make important decisions that affect their own well-being and that of the child. He also can help them begin the process of repentance. Because of the social and emotional issues inherent in such situations, the bishop should consider referring the unwed parents to LDS Family Services (where available) regardless of whether they choose to marry, place their child for adoption, or keep the child without getting married.

... When the possibility of a successful marriage is unlikely, unwed parents should be encouraged to place the child for adoption, preferably through LDS family services ...

Unwed parents who do not marry should not be counseled to keep the infant as a condition of repentance, or our of an obligation to care for one's own family. Generally, unwed parents are not able to provide the stable, nurturing environment for the baby's well-being." First Presidency letter 15th June 1998.

November 2000 sounds like the ideal opportunity for the Morg God to give us His best advice for the new millennium, like for example, Ensure your false-flag government doesn't allow terrorists to smash two passenger planes into the Twin Towers. Instead, the world is choked with this holy ash rubbish:

"We Ń the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Ń have taken the position, and I quote, that Ōthe Church discourages tattoos. It also discourages the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes, although it takes no position on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings'." Gordon B Hinckley, Your Greatest Challenge, Mother, Ensign November 2000.

Other Declarations, for example, to do with Tithing or the Family are just so awful and soporific that they should never be read, kept away from children, and buried for good.

So then, the sum total of this Godly advice amounts to no warnings about wars, famines, pestilences, or even to beware a dangerous anti-christ called Glenn Beck. No racing tips. No amazing philosophy. No directions to buried treasure. Just this terrible tub of tosh. Be prepared for the next Declaration to be indespensible advice about how many times a week the oppressed Mormon wife should hoover the house.

Your marks out of ten please for the Morg God.

Top Ten Most Offensive Statements by Mormon Leaders

06/06/2005 by rmw

10. "It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this ‘church which is the most abominable above all other churches' in vision. He ‘saw the devil that he was the foundation of it' and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization.(Bruce R. McConkie. Mormon Doctrine [1958], 130.)

9. "I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Twenty Seventh Wife, Irving Wallace, p. 101.

8. "Brethren, I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp

7. "You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:336).

6. "The day of the Lamanites in nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome. . . The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation. . .There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. Spencer W. Kimball; The Improvemant, Era, Dec. 1960, p. 923)

5. "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Can might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, page 290).

4. "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)

3. "Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race." (Tenth LDS President, Joseph Fielding Smith The Way to Perfection, p.101.)

2. "Let us consider the great mercy of God for a moment. a Chinese, born in China with a dark skin, and with all the handicaps of that race seems to have little opportunity. but think of the mercy of god to Chinese people who are willing to accept the gospel. In spite of whatever they might have done in the pre-existence to justify being born over there as Chinamen, if they now, in this life, accept the gospel and live it the rest of their lives they can have the Priesthood, go to the temple and receive endowments and sealings, and that means they can have exaltation. Isn't the mercy of God marvelous?

Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood... This Negro, who in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincerer faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessing of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory. (Race Problems--As They Affect The Church, An address by Mark E. Petersen at the Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College level; Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.)

1. "We do not intend to admit to our campus any homosexuals. If any of you have this tendency and have not completely abandoned it, may I suggest that you leave the university immediately after this assembly.... We do not want others on this campus to be contaminated by your presence." (Ernest Wilkinson, president of Brigham Young University, in a 1965 lecture to the BYU student body, titled: "Make Honor your Standard."

Not trying to be a name dropper or anything...

- 04/17/2005 - by Son and Heir (of nothing in particular)

... but working so close to 50 E South Temple gave me a good opportunity to meet a few of the brethren in their natural habitat, so for what it's worth, here is my take on the general authorities I met while in servitude for the kingdom:

Hinckley - Only almost mowed him down with a dumpster on wheels on my way to the COB while he was rounding the corner on his way from his apartment corridor to the office. I said to the guy I was training "let's try not to run over the prophet" to which Hinckley gave a gratuitous smirk and then continued on. No personal contact otherwise.

Monson - his reputation preceded him. Even his personal secretary could not refrain from 'evil speaking of the Lard's anointed' when it came to Tommy. Every thing out of that man's mouth is pure insincerity at best and hypocrisy at worst. He was gunning for GA ever since he was a youngster. Even tried to make inroads into the Hinckley family by courting one or two of them, but they would not have him as they presumably saw right through his political motives. Hurts, doesn't it, Tommy?

Faust - Nothing to report. Seems genuinely nice.

Packer - Luckily no personal contact. He was another whose reputation preceded him. Whenever he was in attendance at a function, protocol always had to be reviewed so that none of the servers approached him in any form of hero-worship.

Ashton - Dead now, but back in the day he used to come to the all-you-can-eat Prime Rib buffet at the Lion House dressed in an un-tucked cowboy shirt, bolo tie, and huge turquoise belt buckle. That won my respect. Seemed very down to earth.

Perry - Seemed playfully happy, approachable, and less uptight than the others. Was always polite to the 'hired help' and engaged in conversation.

Haight - Also dead now, but a real character in life. He would poke his head in the kitchen from time to time to chat with us low-lifes or make a wise crack. He asked me where I served my mission to which I replied 'Connecticut.' Without missing a beat, he said, 'Oh, we own that.' Haight would have made a believable prophet (much like Kimball was), as he was tender-hearted and loving. Too bad he couldn't have outlived them all.

Oaks - Felt like I needed to shower every time I shook his hand. But seriously, he just didn't strike me as having much sincerity either. Reading over Steve Benson's experience with him seemed to fit well with my own impressions. He seemed to me like a politician on the campaign trail drumming up votes by kissing babies and shaking as many hands as possible while the cameras were pointed at him. He always had a smile on his face, but it seemed pasted on in contrast to, say, Perry's which was more legit.

Ballard - Really offended one of my co-workers with his rudeness while being waited on. She was a convert from Ireland who had delusions of grandeur when it came to meeting 'an apostle.' That is, until Ballard shattered her dreams of their being next to Christ himself in holiness. I believe she either left the church or went very inactive over the incident. I got the distinct impression that he took special license to his arrogance by virtue of the fact that he is a blood relation to the prophet JS. He seemed to think that gave him supremacy over just about every other human out there.

That's really all I have by way of personal experience with the big 15. It is really quite unfair to characterize all of them as being disingenuous or shady. While I believe that most of them are in on the punch line, so to speak, I do not get a sense of malicious intent from many of them. There are those so steeped in self-deception that they believe they really do speak for God (*ahem* Packer), but the only one I worry about is Tommy Monson. Knowing what I do about his disposition from first-hand accounts (everyone who works at the COB or at church headquarters in general gets wind of some of these), I find it a bit scary that he is next in line. Maybe the only thing that will keep him from becoming the next pontiff is Crown Burger. He has a weakness for red meat and he doesn't have the greatest coronary health.

My lunch with a G.A.


by Voodew - 03/21/2005
click image for audio inserts into this dialog

It was another night terror; I awoke with a scream .

What is happening to me? I must get back control. How long can somebody carry on fractured down the psychic middle - am I going crazy?

Suddenly it occurred to me that I must call my GA friend, surely he could provide some explanations.

I jumped out of bed, I had freakish glimmer of hope but some part of me knew it was madness , after all, hadn't I already proven it to myself - all the lies. What was I doing, more mental masturbation?

The lunch date was set; tomorrow I was going to get the answers I deserved.

My first question was, why the faithful history, "do you know about this?" Immediately my small glimmer of hope was dashed when he stated that he thought my questions were based on my non-compliance with the word of wisdom.

Perhaps I over reacted when I said (my Mormon voice whispered in my head ) but what the hell does drinking tea have to do with whitewashing our past?

The savvy GA instantly waxed apologetic, "I don't know what could have come over me?"

I was so angry at this point that I almost spit out, "Why don't you suck this apology out of my dick!" Instead I graciously said, "Apology accepted." (The GA's poker face didn't flinch, he knew he was looking at the devil)

Now he pulled out the Mormon trump card - the persecuted saint. "Well, I've been accused of alot of things before, but never that."

I felt the old weight of despair wash over me again, we were getting nowhere. "Any of this getting through to you?"

The swirling voices in my head where maddening, they wanted to take possession of my tongue. "What would you do with a brain if you had one" (Did I say that out loud?).

At this point I declared my un-testimony. "Do you recall what Barnum said about suckers?"

I hesitated for just a second but once I got started couldn't turn back . I said, "You're an inspiration for birth control."

He interrupted, "Begging for mercy makes me angry." And I held up my hand, "NO NO, WAIT" He was all like totally rude with this stupid grin singing, "Don't worry, be happy".

That was it, I had enough, I was done, all my Mormon demons died in that instant.

Finally I skinned my dragon, the scales of dogma fell from my heart. "I have awakened." I got up and said goodbye, my GA friend look stunned and wanted to know if we could meet again . I said "no that is not necessary", he felt slighted and commented on my attitude, I said, "Yep, you're right. I need to work on my attitude."

Walking away from that meeting I new I was on a new road, liberated, free!

Joseph was a prophet

To the tune of "Follow the Prophet" - created by jennyfoo, activejack, sophia, & Jonathan - 02/12/2005

Joseph was a prophet, he liked to dig for gold.
Then he realized there was money in God's word.
He made up a religion and called men to repent.
now millions of Mormons give his church ten percent.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
The Lord is rich indeed.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Feed the corporate greed.

Brigham was a "prophet", led the Saints after Joe died.
His agenda was to murder and "protect" us with his lies.
He practiced blood vengeance so the faithful were afraid.
He needed a harem in order to get laid.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Don't dare expose the lie.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Or you will have to die.

John Taylor was a prophet, always lied for Joseph Smith
Covered all his tracks and all the brethren he was with.
While on the run from federal marshals for having many wives
He married a twenty year old woman when he was seventy-nine.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
There's nothing wrong with that.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Young girls are where it's at.

Woodruff was a prophet, he ended polygamy
With a manifesto forced by his great country
Many practiced in secret known to this man of god
He approved of many women holding to the rod.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Breaking laws is good.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Lie for the Lord, we should.

Lorenzo was a Prophet aspired to be God
Preached godhood exaltation which was rather odd.
God was once a man on an Earth like ours he taught
now the church is saying that doctrine it was not.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Have a long white beard.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
But now his doctrine's weird.

Joe F. Smith was a prophet, one of the good ol' boys,
Liked having many women and treated them as toys.
He authorized plural marriage down in Mexico
Contrary to the orders of Lorenzo Snow.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
He liked to disobey.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
He knows the way.

Heber was a prophet, concerned about the church
he was worried about appearance and scriptural research
He shut down church owned brothels, and shortened up the G's
So they reached the elbow and just below the knees.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
change the sacred drawers.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Get rid of all the whores.

George Smith was a prophet, the members he'd torment
Warned of Atomic warfare and called all to repent.
Soon throughout the world, millions would drop like flies
More than fifty years later, we're all still alive.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
The end is coming soon.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
He was a bafoon.

Harry Lee was a prophet, his tenure ended quick.
He finally was the man in charge then came down really sick.
But while he was apostle, he ruled with fists of steel.
His correlation commitee brought the membership to heel.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
No priesthood for the blacks.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
The church will weather the attacks.

Dave McKay he was a prophet,and missions were his thing.
With members all the world over what tithing they would bring.
Each member as a missionary spreading Joseph's lies,
And acting as a mainstream cult will be our great disguise.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Listen to ka-ching.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
The fortunes it will bring.

Joe Smith he was a prophet, but not the one you think.
This Joe Smith was prophet when his age was on the brink.
He left the running of the church to sidekick Harry Lee,
And let him quiet Ezra and his right-wing philosophy.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
His time in charge was short.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
His life would soon abort.

Spencer was a prophet, the Lamanites were his game.
Asians or Israelites, no idea from whence they came.
Lamanites are dark and loathesome 'til the gospel they are taught.
To make white and delightsome was the goal, or so he thought.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Tear indian families apart
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Pretend you have a heart.

Ezra was a prophet, hated communists
If he ever saw one he would shake his fist, and
He considered Negroes lowly as a race,
Plus he told all women, “Don't forget your place.”

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Feeble in his mind.
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
To society be blind.

Howard was a prophet, aged, old, and sick.
Only in for nine months. His term ended quick.
The temple was his goal, every member to attend.
Tithing money was his true motivation in the end.

Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
He was sick all the time
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
Follow the Prophet
'Cuz he was next in line.

Hinckley was prophet, or so the leaders say.
Teaching us to hate all the people who are gay.
Shunning all the doctrine he has taught since birth
Building fancy buildings so they can dot the earth.
Follow the prophet
Follow the prophet
Follow the prophet
I don't know that we teach that.
Follow the prophet
Follow the prophet
Follow the prophet
Boy my wallet's getting fat.

Elder L. Tom Perry's review of his brethren - Notes from Kuna Idaho Stake Conference.

04/15/2004 courtesy of Arminius

Speaker - L. Tom Perry

In our present Council of the 12 Apostles, there has been no change in nine years. This is the longest in the history of the Church that the same 12 apostles have served together. We asked President Hinckley why this is so and he said our wisdom is needed to stand up against the great changes in the world.

President Packer is the most inspirational spiritual man I've ever had the opportunity to work with. He also can get very irate and it is my job to kick him in the shins if he gets too irate. Next time you see him, ask him to lift his pant legs so you can see my kick marks on his shins!

Elder Haight is stronger today than he has been in a long time. We fully expected him to die last July. His daughter called us and told us the doctors gave him just days to live. But he rallied and he now has a physical therapist that comes to his house every day and works with him. I visited him in his apartment and he showed me that he walks around his table 12 times, then he walks around his couch 12 times, then he walks a circuit in his apartment. He said, "Anything the physical therapist asks me to do, I do twice!" He comes to our council meetings and contributes to each one. We even plan on him speaking for General Conference for 5 minutes-we hope! He can't see well and he doesn't see the teleprompter so we don't know what he will say or how long he will go.

Elder Maxwell's life has been preserved in a most remarkable way. He has been preserved to bless us with that brilliant mind of his. Oh the jewels that come out of Elder Maxwell!

Elder Nelson is the physician to the First Presidency and to the Twelve. If we have an ailment we can talk to him about it. He is our doctor. He still makes hospital rounds. He is the greatest ambassador we have because he has a reputation all over the world. He can go anywhere in the world and people know and respect him because of his great pioneering work in heart surgery.

Elder Ballard is our used car salesman! He is our enthusiastic leader of the missionary department. He is telling our missionaries, "Stop being robots! Learn how to teach by the Spirit!" He has convinced President Hinckley to raise the bar. Now you have to qualify for a mission. We should raise the bar in our own activities. Elder Scott is our nuclear scientist. He is a computer genius. He helps us all keep our computers working right. He has the talent of looking to the future.

Elder Hales is our international businessman. He was in charge of the international sales of all the men's shaving products and the like for a large international area (I think in the orient). He has a great financial talent. He sits on committees with our First Presidency.

Oh, I forgot Elder Oaks! Well, he's away! No wonder I should forget. He is our judge. He is very detailed like an attorney. Nothing escapes his mind. I send him a message and replies back correcting my voice-mail! He understands the law and principles. He is our great public relations man. He understands the needs of the Church.

Elder Holland is our great student. President of a university or two. He is an excellent writer. Whenever there is a difficult assignment in that way, he gets the assignment to do the writing for it. Elder Eyring . . . I wish someone could explain him to me! He gives me a headache with that brilliant mind of his! When we travel together he sits up front next to the driver and pops questions, trying to understand everyone and everything around him.

Each of us is wonderfully different but as a combination as a whole we make a wonderful high council. We are certain to follow the order of the Church in our meetings and in all we do. This has been clearly established. For example, I would never think of going through a door before Elder Packer. He is the President of our Council. It is the President of the Council who selects the President of the Church. Is there any other way the Lord controls who he selects as a prophet? If He doesn't want an apostle to preside, He who controls life and death calls him home. Every week the Cummings Chocolate people send us a 3 lb. box of chocolates. In our meeting, we follow our order and President Packer picks first, then I choose, and so on.

Poor Elder Eyring has never had a light chocolate yet! Perhaps if he lives long enough!!!

Elder Richards acts like Jesus in with the Nephites.

04/15/2004 from Sootanpeel Chamay

I was in the MTC (Missionary Training Center) in Feb. 2004, when Elder Richards came to do what was billed as his "inspired" fireside. Apparently, he comes every 14 weeks, so within that normal rotation, all of the missionaries who are there were NOT there 14 weeks ago. However, several of us from my district (we were going to Korea) were still there waiting for our visas. HE GAVE THE EXACT SAME SPEECH! And the speech was centered chiefly around basic P.R. and manipulation techniques that I learned from my time as a public relations student at BYU. He said things like, "don't allow investigators to ask questions at the beginning; too many questions at the beginning can be dangerous," and "only tell them what they want to hear."

The crowning glory of the whole thing, was, at the end, Elder Richards commented that there were nearly 2000 missionaries in the auditorium. He said that Christ took the time to greet all of the Nephites and Lamanites or whatever, when He visited the Americas, and there were probably over 2000 of them. So Elder Richards then said that he wanted to experience "what it's like to be Christ..."

So, the senile old man made us stand in line for TWO AND A HALF HOURS to shake his hand! Two and a half hours is a LOT of time, but it's an ETERNITY at the MTC, where we have less than two hours of personal time a WEEK. How egotistical of him to waste two and a half hours of our time standing in a line with 2000 other missionaries to shake his sorry hand.

What's the highest priority of Mormom Prophets, Seers and Revelators?.

03/21/2004 by Deconstructor

Do church leaders think they have a duty to tell to truth, or to protect church authority at all costs?

Apostle Dallin Oaks:

"My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the Savior. Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors."
- Apostle Dallin Oaks, footnote 28, Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii

Apostle Boyd K. Packer:

“You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now.

“Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”

Some things that are true are not very useful.

“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. ... Do not spread disease germs!"
- Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect", 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271

Apostle Russel M. Nelson:

"Indeed, in some instances, the merciful companion to truth is silence. Some truths are best left unsaid."

"Any who are tempted to rake through the annals of history, to use truth unrighteously, or to dig up facts with the intent to defame or destroy, should hearken to this warning of scripture:

“The righteousness of God [is] revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.” (Rom. 1:17-18.)

I repeat: “The wrath of God is … against all … who hold the truth in unrighteousness.”

To anyone who, because of truth, may be tempted to become a dissenter against the Lord and his anointed, weigh carefully your action in light of this sacred scripture:

“These dissenters, having the same instruction and the same information … yea, having been instructed in the same knowledge of the Lord, nevertheless, it is strange to relate, not long after their dissensions they became more hardened and impenitent, and … wicked, … entirely forgetting the Lord their God.” (Alma 47:36.)

"We must realize that we are at war. The war began before the world was and will continue. The forces of the adversary are extant upon the earth. All of our virtuous motives, if transmitted only by inertia and timidity, are no match for the resolute wickedness of those who oppose us."
- Russell M. Nelson, “Truth—and More,” Ensign, Jan. 1986, page 69

Never Criticize Past or Present Church Leaders - Even if it's True

"It is one thing to depreciate a person who exercises corporate power or even government power. It is quite another thing to criticize or depreciate a person for the performance of an office to which he or she has been called of God. It does not matter that the criticism is true. As Elder George F. Richards, President of the Council of the Twelve, said in a conference address in April 1947, 'when we say anything bad about the leaders of the Church, whether true or false, we tend to impair their influence and their usefulness and are thus working against the Lord and his cause.' ... The Holy Ghost will not guide or confirm criticism of the Lord's anointed, or of Church leaders, local or general. This reality should be part of the spiritual evaluation that LDS readers and viewers apply to those things written about our history and those who made it."
- Dallin H. Oaks, "Reading Church History," CES Doctrine and Covenants Symposium, Brigham Young University, 16 Aug. 1985, page 25. also see Dallin H. Oaks, "Elder Decries Criticism of LDS Leaders," quoted in The Salt Lake Tribune, Sunday August 18, 1985, p. 2B

Apostle Dallin H. Oaks published a similar talk for the February 1987 Ensign Magazine. Again, Apostle Oaks declared that there is no place in the church for public criticism of church leaders, even if the criticism is true. He also said:

"Truth surely exists as an absolute, but our use of truth should be disciplined by other values. ... When truth is constrained by other virtues, the outcome is not falsehood but silence for a season. As the scriptures say, there is “a time to keep silence, and a time to speak.”

"Does the commandment to avoid faultfinding and evil speaking apply to Church members’ destructive personal criticism of Church leaders? Of course it does. It applies to criticism of all Church leaders—local or general, male or female. In our relations with all of our Church leaders, we should follow the Apostle Paul’s direction: “Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father.” (1 Tim. 5:1.)"

"Government or corporate officials, who are elected directly or indirectly or appointed by majority vote, must expect that their performance will be subject to critical and public evaluations by their constituents. That is part of the process of informing those who have the right and power of selection or removal. The same is true of popularly elected officers in professional, community, and other private organizations. I suppose that the same is true even of church leaders [in other churches] who are selected by popular vote of members or their representative bodies. Consistent with gospel standards, these evaluations—though critical and public—should be constructive."

"A different principle applies in our Church, where the selection of leaders is based on revelation, subject to the sustaining vote of the membership. In our system of Church government, evil speaking and criticism of leaders by members is always negative. Whether the criticism is true or not, as Elder George F. Richards explained, it tends to impair the leaders’ influence and usefulness, thus working against the Lord and his cause."

"Public debate—the means of resolving differences in a democratic government—is not appropriate in our Church government. We are all subject to the authority of the called and sustained servants of the Lord. They and we are all governed by the direction of the Spirit of the Lord, and that Spirit only functions in an atmosphere of unity. That is why personal differences about Church doctrine or procedure need to be worked out privately."
- Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Criticism,” Ensign, Feb. 1987, page 68

“You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself, with patience and faith, the promise is that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against you; yea, and the Lord God will disperse the powers of darkness from before you, and cause the heavens to shake for your good, and his name’s glory.’ (DC 21:6)”
- Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, Oct. 1970, p. 152

Family Love Only Short-Term Objective Compared With Obedience to Church
"All Latter-day Saints understand that having an eternal family is an eternal goal. Exaltation is a family matter, not possible outside the everlasting covenant of marriage, which makes possible the perpetuation of glorious family relationships. But this does not mean that everything related to mortal families is an eternal goal. There are many short-term objectives associated with families—such as family togetherness or family solidarity or love—that are methods, not the eternal goals we pursue in priority above all others."

"The purpose of mortal families is to bring children into the world, to teach them what is right, and to prepare all family members for exaltation in eternal family relationships. The gospel plan contemplates the kind of family government, discipline, solidarity, and love that serve those ultimate goals. But even the love of family members is subject to the overriding first commandment, which is love of God, and the Savior’s directive, “If ye love me, keep my commandments”. As Jesus taught, “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me”.
- Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, “Weightier Matters,” Ensign, Jan. 2001, 13

Last year President Hinckley and Apostle Holland again put "uncompromising loyalty" to church leaders above all else:

http://www.i4m.com/think/leaders/mormon_loyalty.htm

So can we trust these guys to tell us the truth?

Do Mormon prophets really know the Church is true?: What some of them told me.

03/16/2004 by Steve Benson

Introduction: What Do the General Authorities Know and How Do They Know It?

A sometimes-asked question on this board . . . is whether the General Authorities of the Mormon Church genuinely believe the Church is true.

They may believe it; they may not.

But do they know it?

I cannot, of course, speak for them. But I can, perhaps, provide a few glimpses into their thinking on this question--based upon my personal contact with some of them and what they told me in conversation and letter.


Ezra Taft Benson

My grandfather's testimony of Mormonism, as expressed to me repeatedly over the years in personal discussions and correspondence, was rooted in two basic beliefs:

(1) The Book of Mormon

He fervently believed that the Book of Mormon was the revealed word of God and an actual historical document. From what I was able to observe, he never, ever questioned its authenticity.

That said, however, I never heard or saw him analyze or critique the Book of Mormon in any real depth on issues relating to its alleged historicity or reliability.

Ezra Taft Benson did admit to me in private that even though he insisted the Church was not neutral on the question of organic evolution, one could argue for or against it from the same Mormon scriptures. In other words, for all his pulpit-pounding confidence in the Book of Mormon, in this particular instance he was not nearly as emphatic or confident in private as he appeared in public about the surety of LDS scripture.

Nevertheless, that seeming qualifier was not enough to shake his unbending faith in the gold plates. To my grandfather, they were without question the translated word of God, serving as a pillar of unshakeable, personal, testimonial faith.

Ranking second only to revealed Mormon scripture in fighting godless Communism, he told me, were the publications of the John Birch Society.

(2) The ranking leaders of the Mormon Church

My grandfather unquestioningly believed, and simply accepted, that the highest leaders of the Church--specifically, the President and his counselors, along with the Quorum of the Twelve--were inspired by God in leading the affairs of the Mormon Church. He insisted that all must follow the Brethren devoutly--and without skepticism.

For example, when he called me one snowy, wintry day in Provo to tell me to break off my engagement to Mary Ann, he introduced himself by saying, "Stephen, I'm not calling as your grandfather, but as the President of the Quorum of the Twelve."

He did, however, privately acknowledge to me that these Church leaders were human, that they made mistakes, that they did not always agree among themselves on doctrinal matters and that some of what they disagreed on was not necessary to one's eternal salvation.

Still, he told me that obedience to the General Authorities--even if what they claimed to be true was, in fact, wrong--constituted a fundamental principle of the Gospel. He assured me that God would bless those who followed the Brethren, even when the Brethren were in error.

My grandfather also told me that he did not want me to publish anything that would undermine faith or testimony in the leaders of the Mormon Church.

In short, he seemed at times more committed to principles of obedience than to principles of truth.

My grandfather never claimed to me (or anyone else that I am aware of) that he had personally seen God, Jesus Christ or other divine beings. He did, however, tell me that he had had an experience in the Salt Lake temple (regarding the announcement by President Kimball on Blacks and the priesthood) that was too sacred to talk about. This supposed experience he would not delve into at all, even though I requested that he do so.

He also informed the Benson family that there were other matters which he was not at liberty to discuss.

He was never specific with me in revealing any particular personal experiences of his that formed the basis for his testimony of the truthfulness of Mormonism--other than to bear witness to knowing that truth through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.


Bruce R. McConkie

In a lengthy one-on-one conversation I had with McConkie at his home while doing a BYU research paper on the official Mormon Church position on the subject of organic evolution, McConkie strongly emphasized what was an obvious and fundamental basis for his belief in the truthfulness of the Mormon Church.

That foundation was that the Standard Works of the Church served as the ultimate authority in determining truth.

McConkie said that the canonized LDS scriptures superceded anything that the living presidents of the Church had declared, or might declare. He said that the Standard Works served as the final test--the pre-eminent standard of measurement--in ascertaining the validity of any claim made by Church leaders, including teachings of both living and dead presidents of the Church.

Otherwise, McConkie told me, these scriptures would not be known as the "standard" works.

In making this claim, McConkie specifically criticized two Church presidents whom he said had made uninspired pronouncements while serving as Church president. Their pronouncements were false, he argued, because what they said was clearly contradicted by the LDS Standard Works:

--The first was President Brigham Young, for his teachings on the Adam-God doctrine. [McConkie told me that you could quote Brigham Young against Brigham Young].

--The second was President David O. McKay, for his advice to BYU students that they study the theory of organic evolution and the geologic history pointing to an ancient earth.

McConkie did not admit to having made any doctrinal errors himself. In this area, his testimony seemed to rest on his own sense of doctrinal infallibility.

In fact, McConkie told me that his claim that the Roman Catholic Church was the Church of the Devil was true, even though this assertion was edited out of the second edition of his book, Mormon Doctrine. McConkie insisted that it was removed not because it was not true, but because it was too difficult for many people to accept.


Spencer W. Kimball

During the course of my BYU research paper on the LDS stand regarding organic evolution, I corresponded with Kimball, who was then Mormon Church president.

Throughout the course of our exchanges, I had a difficult and frustrating time obtaining direct and clear answers from him.

One thing, however, was obvious:

Kimball did not know much about what other Church presidents had said on certain, important doctrinal matters. By logical extension, therefore, whatever faith Kimball had in the truthfulness of Mormonism was not based on official Mormon positions--enunciated by the president of the Mormon Church--about which he admittedly knew nothing.

For instance, on the question of previous First Presidency statements on the physical origins of humankind, Kimball informed me that he was not familiar with the ones I had cited in my initial correspondence with him.

On the subject of faith, the only direction Kimball gave me was to read Henry Eyring's book, Faith of a Scientist, in which Eyring asserted that science and religion both served as tools in the search for truth: the former in helping people avoid myth; and the latter in directing people toward God.

When I subsequently asked Kimball to provide me his views on Eyring's book, Kimball remained stone silent.


Mark E. Petersen

In conducting my research on the question of the official Church position on organic evolution, I also corresponded with Petersen.

Petersen revealed a lack of firm belief in the seemingly official pronouncements of even unsigned editorials in the official LDS publication, the Church News.

When pressed, Petersen admitted to me the following:

--that the editorials written on the subject of organic evolution he had authored himself;

--that they represented his own opinion; and

--that official statements on Church doctrine came only from signed First Presidency statements.


Dallin H. Oaks

In a conversation I had with Oaks shortly before leaving the Mormon Church, he told me that the basis for his personal testimony about the truthfulness of Mormonism took the form of a warm spiritual witness which he felt in his heart.

This witness apparently had particular meaning for Oaks with regard to the truthfulness of official Mormon scripture.

Oaks admitted to me, for instance, that critics of the Book of Abraham seemed at the present time to have favorable arguments against its authenticity. Oaks told me, however, that the truthfulness of the Book of Abraham ultimately came through a personal, spiritual witness.

Oaks further said that the Book of Mormon could neither be proven or disproven by evidentiary examination, but in the end, also had to be accepted on faith.

In admitting that the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon could not be empirically proven, Oaks even acknowledged that portions of the Book of Mormon--albeit insignificant,in his opinion--might have potential problems with plagiarism.

Despite that admission, Oaks informed me that he had received a spiritual witness that served as the basis for his personal testimony that the Book of Mormon was true.

Oaks's testimony regarding Mormonism's prophets was both illuminating--and conditional.

He did not seem particularly impressed with the antics of even fellow members of the Quorum of the Twelve, notably his senior, Boyd K. Packer. After it became public knowledge that Packer had improperly involved himself in the excommuncation of Paul Toscano, Oaks in referring to Packer told me, "You can't stage manage a grizzly bear."

He told me that he would steadfastly stand by the president of the Church, with one notable exception:

He would not defer, he said, to the president of the Church if the president were to come out and declare that the Book of Mormon was not true. If that should happen, Oaks said he would look to the Quorum of the Twelve for a vote as to whether what the president had said about the Book of Mormon deserved support.

Oaks also did not seem completely certain as to the reliability of prophecies uttered by Mormon prophets. He told me that Church members should not be keeping track of which prophecies had been borne out and, further, that prophecies made by Mormon prophets were for private, rather than public, application.

Oaks noted, as well, that the basic Church doctrines were revealed by Joseph Smith early in the history of the Church. He said that the more modern approach of Church governance has been, since the time of President Joseph F. Smith, to "beseech his counselors in the First Presidency to help him, to watch over him, so that they could together make the right decisions that God wanted them to make."

Oaks also downplayed the prophetic role of Mormon Church prophets by asserting that prophesying was only a minor responsibility of prophets. Their major role, he declared, was to testify of Jesus Christ.

When I asked Oaks to share with me his personal testimony that served as a basis for his apostolic calling as a special witness for Christ, Oaks recounted his days as a college student at the University of Chicago, where he said he had questions about the Mormon Church. He did not detail the nature of those questions but said a local LDS Institute teacher helped him find answers.


Neal A. Maxwell

Maxwell was together with, and participated in, the same conversations I had with Oaks.

Maxwell seemed equally unsure as to the evidentiary proof for the Book of Mormon. He told me, for instance, that God would not provide proof of the Book of Mormon until the end--thereby implying that such proof did not presently exist.

Maxwell also told me that one of the purposes of F.A.R.M.S. was to prevent the General Authorities from being outflanked by the Church's critics.

As to how he personally regarded the pronouncements of president of the Church, Maxwell said it was his duty to be loyal to the Church president. Maxwell added, however, that he not agree with everything President Benson had to say on political matters. This was particularly interesting, given that Ezra Taft Benson had earlier declared that God's prophets could speak authoritatively on all matters, including those of a political nature.

Maxwell, like Oaks, warned me against keeping "box scores" when it came to tallying up which prophecies uttered by Mormon prophets turned out to be turned--and which ones turned out to be false.

He further reminded me that prophets spoke as prophets only when they were acting as prophets--but that the teachings about moonmen attributed to Joseph Smith were probably misreported.

Maxwell instructed me as to how revelation for the Mormon Church was actually received. He said that Joseph Smith's role as unilaterally revealing doctrine in behalf of the Church was a practice not continued by subsequent Mormon prophets. Maxwell claimed there are four levels of fundamental Church doctrine:

(1) those doctrines revealed by the prophet speaking alone;

(2) those doctrines revealed by the prophet in conjunction with his First Presidency counselors;

(3) those doctrines revealed in First Presidency statements, with the words of the First Presidency assuming "a special status;" and

(4) those doctrines revealed by official declaration.

(By the way, both Oaks and Maxwell asserted that what the president of the Mormon Church said must be in compliance with the Standard Works of the Church. They also said that that when Brigham Young taught what Oaks called the "false" doctrine of Adam-God, it was because he was a young prophet who was in need of the help of some good counselors).

When I asked Maxwell to share with me his personal testimony as to his apostolic calling as a special witness of Christ, he told me about the time when, as a young boy, he witnessed his father give his sibling a healing priesthood blessing.


Conclusion: Pulling Back the Curtain

The above statements by Mormonism's supposed prophets, seers and revelators speak for themselves.

There are no wizards behind the curtain--only men.

They are men who speak in loud voices, issue solemn warnings, pull lots of levers, blow plenty of smoke and attempt other feeble special effects.

But in the end, they are mere mortals--not godly portals--who possess only human powers, perceptions and feelings. Despite what they may claim in public, they are not the beneficiaries of any special divine witness.

In sum, they are most decidedly not prophets of God.

Ten year old Benjamin's prayer

03/03/2004 from Blash

True story: An open minded, non-Mormon friend of mine encouraged his young sons to explore and learn about various religions. The boys decided to invite the Elders to their home to present the First Discussion. At the conclusion of the discussion, young Benjamin (maybe 10 years old) was invited by the Elders to offer a prayer.

Benjamin was no doubt thinking about the prophets, seers and relevators of the Church the Elders had talked about -- as he prayed to Heavenly Father, "Please bless the fortune tellers . . . ."

Does Gordon B. Hinkley really think he's the prophet?

02/29/2004 by Harbinger

Don't know about GBH, but I do know Harold B Lee couldn't look a 14-year-old girl (me) in the eye and say he really was a prophet of god.

When I voiced my doubts to my mother (ooooo, BIG mistake!), she sent me across country for the express purpose of having one of her friends (Truman Madsen) take me to visit HBL so I could ask him in person whether or not he was a prophet and I could have some sort of miraculous conversion.

HBL couldn't say it. The best he could do was to tell me to go along with whatever my parents wanted me to believe. The miraculous conversion never happened.

Nevertheless, my mom bragged to everyone about the visit and how I had looked HBL in the eye and KNOWN he was a prophet. I was forbidden to contradict her whenever she told her story. ;-P

Can you imagine a LESS-INSPIRED method of selecting new prophets

06/10/2003 by Perry Noid

You hear the title all the time in Mormonism. "Prophet, Seer and Revelator." The title immediately conjures up imagery of mysticism, inspiration, infallible predictions, the ability to call down thunderbolts from heaven or badly needed gentle rain for a drought-stricken land. Those are the kinds of things that the title "Prophet" brings to mind.

Mormons are proud that they, alone among all contemporary religions, have an authentic "living prophet" leading their church at all times--just like in the Bible and the Book of Mormon (sort of, anyway, if you don't read those books too carefully). Often that is the main selling point made by Mormon missionaries. If you don't have an inspired living prophet, everyone just makes stuff up and sooner or later all you've got is another one of those "apostate" religious sects that only have part of the truth. Why would you even consider going to a church that's not led by a "living prophet"???

Given all the hype, you'd think that if there was one aspect of Mormonism in which the Mormon God would want to unmistakeably reveal his divine influence and show his hand, it would be in the selection of his one-and-only living prophet. Each successor would be chosen in a manner that, as fully as possible, conferred all the legitimacy and authority that God could give to one man.

You would think that the choices would be so inspired that in hindsight, at least, the inspiration would become more and more obvious. No one would doubt that God inspired the choice of the new prophet.

BUT

It doesn't seem to work that way in the Mormon church. The Mormon church has adopted a fully automated seniority system for determining the selection of its living prophets. There is exactly 0% room for inspiration in this system. It's a formula--just like the conversion of dollars to euros to pesos at a specified exchange rate.

True Believing Mormons (TBM's), using their patented Circular Reasoning machine, have of course concluded that because (1) this is the way things are done, it must be (2) God's will, and (3) we know it's God's will because (4) this is the way things are done in God's restored Church, and (5) we know it's God's restored church because the living prophet says so, and (6) we know that the living prophet is a real living prophet because he obtained that position by virtue of his seniority, and (7) we know that his reaching that level of seniority was God's will because (go back to step 1).

Oh the Brethren will tell you that they all prayed and fasted in the upper room of the temple before unanimously concluding that the Apostle with the most seniority should be the next president just like the last dozen or so successions. But we all know they could have been praying to Bozo the Clown, or reading Magic 8 Balls, playing with a Ouija Board or seeing which direction their boogers float in their hot Postum and they still would have come up with the same answer: SENIORITY RULES!!!

Why even bother with the pretense of prayer and fasting? There's no room to receive any other answer. The only question that lends any suspense or drama to the procedure is whether the senior apostle can cling to life long enough to get the title officially bestowed on him by the other apostles.

Then, even after the senior guy becomes president, his health often detiorates so rapidly that the Church is left with an incapacitated "living prophet" for years at a time and TBMs can only scratch their heads and wonder "what was God thinking?"

Could there be any LESS-INSPIRED system for selecting God's one and only mouthpiece on earth???

Mormon Prophet Pedophilia
The sick truth about early "celestial marriage"

02/12/2003 by Deconstructor

In the early 19th century, girls had their first period around the age of 16. The average age for American girls is now about 12 and a half.

In Utah (1850s to 1890s), the average age of a 2nd wife was 17 (husband average age early 30s) and the average age of a third wife was 19 (husband average age mid to late 30s). The average age in the USA for a first marriage in the late 19th century was about 22.

Mormon men in their 30s (or 40s or 50s) married teenagers because of the shortage of Mormon girls for extra wives.

All census numbers in Utah from about 1850 up to 1960 show more males than females in the state!

Notice that if the average age of a 2nd wife is 17, then there had to be a lot of girls only 14 or 15 or 16 in order to make the average 17 since there would have been some women in their 20s who became plural wives.

When Mormon men in their 30s or 40s in the 19th century convinced a father to give up his 15 year old shapely and attractive daughter as a plural wife to some high ranking LDS man (possibly an apostle or high councilman), the old dude couldn't even be sure if the poor girl had even had her first period since the average age for that was 16 a long time ago.

Talk about robbing the cradle!

Some cases were much worse. For example, church records show that on March 11th, 1848 Benjamin Covey was excommunicated for having sexual intercourse with two girls "less than Twelve years of age." He was later re-baptized and served as bishop of Salt Lake City Twelfth Ward from 22 February 1849 until 1856.

And don't forget that in his 60s, Brigham Young added 3 girls in their 20s to his harem.

And John Taylor (the next lunatic "prophet") married his 26 year old nurse (who was very attractive and shapely) when he was 78 (3 times as old - what a pervert!!!!!!). Josephine's father performed the marriage to Taylor, so odds are that Taylor talked the father into it by promising something to the guy or to the family.

In the early days of Utah, if a father decided to give his daughter to another man as a plural wife, she's better not refuse, or there was often hell to pay. Mormon fathers in the 19th century were known to beat their daughters and threaten them if they refused to be a plural wife for the selected old perverted geezer.

One of the most popular explanations in the LDS church about polygamy is the notion that polygamy became necessary because there was a surplus of women and a shortage of men. This common belief by uninformed Mormons is complete nonsense, and is not true.

The Utah Historical Society includes population statistics in their library. The source for these statistics is the United States Bureau of Census.

Utah population:
1850 total 11,380 ** male 6,046 ** female 5,334
1860 total 40,273 ** male 20,255 ** female 20,018
1870 total 86,786 ** male 44,121 ** female 42,665
1880 total 143,963 ** male 74,509 ** female 68,454
1890 total 210,779 ** male 111,975 ** female 98,804
1800 total 276,749 ** male 141,687 ** female 135,062

The census figures after the periods listed above are irrelevant, but it's interesting to note that there were more males than females in Utah FROM THE EARLY SETTLEMENT UNTIL THE 1960 CENSUS.
One origin of the "more female than male" belief may have come from the following statement: "In the early days of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, an unusual condition prevailed. More women than men joined the church...There were not enough men to go around...The alternative was plural marriage." (The Restored Church, by William E. Berrett, 1956, p.250)
The statement from "The Restored Church" is completely inaccurate (to be more blunt: it was false and was a lie) and was refuted by Apostle John A. Widtsoe:
"The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church is not supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seems always to have been more males than females in the Church...The United States census records from 1850 to 1940, and all available Church records, uniformly show a preponderance of males in Utah...This [theory] is not defensible since there was no surplus of women." - (Evidences and Reconciliations, by John A. Widtsoe, 1960, pages 390-392)
It seems evident that some leaders of the Church (and others such as seminary and institute teachers, Sunday School teachers, etc) are aware of the fallacy stated by Berrett, but perpetuate the rumor because it keeps members from asking the "dangerous" questions, and offers some sort of a weak explanation for the practice of polygamy for over 50 years in early Utah.
"There were quite a majority, I believe, in the days of Joseph, who believed he had no right to dictate in temporal matters, in farms, houses, merchandize, gold, silver, &c.; and they were tried on various points. When the family organization was revealed from heaven--the patriarchal order of God, and Joseph began, on the right and on the left, to add to his family, what a quaking there was in Israel. Says one brother to another, 'Joseph says all covenants are done away, and none are binding but the new covenants; now suppose Joseph should come and say he wanted your wife, what would you say to that?' 'I would tell him to go to hell.' This was the spirit of many in the early days of this Church . . . If Joseph had a right to dictate me in relation to salvation, in relation to a hereafter, he had a right to dictate me in relation to all my earthly affairs, in relation to the treasures of the earth, and in relation to the earth itself . . . What would a man of God say, who felt aright, when Joseph asked him for his money? He would say, 'Yes, and I wish I had more to help to build up the kingdom of God.' Or if he came and said, 'I want your wife?' 'O yes,' he would say, 'here she is, there are plenty more.'

Did the Prophet Joseph want every man's wife he asked for? [Brother X comment: no, not every wife, he only actually married 11 women that were currently married to other men, he he] He did not, but in that thing was the grand thread of the Priesthood developed. The grand object in view was to try the people of God, to see what was in them. If such a man of God should come to me and say, 'I want your gold and silver, or your wives,' I should say, 'Here they are, I wish I had more to give you, take all I have got.'" - (Jedediah M. Grant, First Presidency, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, pages 13-14)

Comments Section

We as church members have had a hard time since the church began even when Christ was on the earth He was ridiculed for what his purpose was but the saviour was forgiving and somethings hurt especially when there are misunderstandings. The Lord set up his church with apostles and prophets and eventually lost because of mens hearts failed. Why when the world is in darkness can the Lord not bring out of obscurity those precious things that are lost with whom he pleases this is his world we do not govern how he runs the church even there are those who asume tht role. In order to find what really is true is to do exactly what Joseph Smith did in 1820 read James chapter 1 verse 5. There are many ready to pull the church down because satan our common enemy is allowed to roam freely untill his time is up. I have been in the presence of prophets and apostles and i have felt there spirit warmly, I cannot deny what i know i cannot tell you what to believe, but i know God lives, Jesus is the christ, and He has restored the church through His prophets and leaders past and present. I have met Boyd K Packer and he is a true apostle because of my witness to the church because i took a leap of faith, not listening to words of degenerate opposition because that is what satan wants us to think and certainly swearing against an apostle makes no difference. The work will go on. - 06/17/2008 - Fishboy

My mission president was David "L" McKay, oldest son of David O. I asked him once if his dad had ever seen Christ and he replied, "no", but he said he had "heard his voice". I was surprised a prophet hadn't seen Christ, I thought it was common. Now I don't know what voice he was hearing... - 01/03/2003 - DanL

My grandfather is like hardcore mormon and we were eating in that food court by the church hq in Salt Lake and we saw that 90 year old General Authority (GA). My grandfather was like thrilled, as if he were meeting a celebrity (sad really) and went up to him to greet him. I came along, trying not to be rude, and the GA was generally nice. But it was funny, because he told me "remember who you are" when he is like 90 years old. I almost said, "I don't think I'll be the one having trouble with that."

My dad is mormon too and he thought the GA was being prophetic with that comment, as I don't believe in mormonism, but was born mormon. I swear, the psychosis is hillarious sometimes. - 12/19/2002 - anonymous

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